So, so true. Lol
Wow.
What a leap in logic and jump to personal attacks.
I was pointing out the illogic in a meme that attempted to contrast the noble founding of our country with the shameful buffoonery of the Republicans. It was not a “let’s get Democrats elected” strategy call.
I haven’t seen anything on this forum for months about the genocide our country is committing in Palestine. And the one time I tried to bring it up in a thread that people actually pay attention to, I got scolded. I’ve pretty much stopped reading journals or posting because of everyone’s silence.
I spent 8 years dedicating my life to getting Democrats elected. I gave up my FIRE dreams to stay in the US and get Democrats elected. I moved to DC to work for Senate Dems and flip two Senate seats. I canvassed for Hillary when everyone around me was still writing Trump off as a joke.
I do not need a lecture about how much worse Trump would be.
You have no place to scold me. I’ve been working every day to fundraise for families fleeing genocide, and educate people, and educate myself, and confront my elected representatives.
This shows me you haven’t taken any time to learn what is actually going on. And that is tragic.
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Democrats are committing genocide.
Even before the debate, Biden lost the election because of the genocide.
The only way for Democrats to win in November is to STOP COMMITTING GENOCIDE.
And that means immense public and private pressure on Democrats. Ignoring it only helps Trump.
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I don’t think that this country will ever stop committing or aiding in committing genocide (genocide against Native Americans is still underway, genocide against transgender people is underway). I also think that this presidency doing whatever it can to stop assisting Israel is more likely for them to lose votes than continuing the present course, both because of how present and relevant Zionism is in the US, and because “we” have been supporting Israel for so long.
I don’t like it. I don’t think that it’s right. I am doing what I can to fight against it.
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Ending our participation in Israel’s genocide, is good policy and good politics.
@Illathrael Agreed on your points about the US committing genocide against Indigenous peoples and transgender people. This country was founded on genocide. We all need to work together to end that legacy.
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You are right. That is probably cold comfort, but I just wanted to acknowledge it publicly.
I really admire your commitment to action, even though I am falling very short of it
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I agree that pulling support for Israel’s military would be good policy, I’ve seen an awful lot of centrists in comments (on work posts where I have to read the comments) that are tired of the money we’re spending on other country’s wars plus the increasing liberal frustration with genocide apologism
I do wonder if they can get ahead of the messaging on that in such a short turn so rund given how entrenched many major donors are in Israeli politics.
(As a note: I’ve seen a fair amount of posts on Gaza on the forums- but we do try to keep the meme threads on topic just because people go there to escape.)
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What really breaks my heart is how many people said this during the Holocaust.
Hi @MonkeyJenga, a few points.
I don’t see where I made any personal attacks. I felt that I was clear that I have a problem with the rhetoric, but I know I get heated and this is your personal big picture issue. What that is for each and everyone of us might be different. It’s great that you have done and continue to do so much for the cause that you have chosen to champion. Fundraising for people fleeing a warzone is important work and I am not trying to diminish that.
I had and continue to have a problem with you specifically saying that democrats are committing genocide. It completely absolves both the republican side of government as well as the sovereign nation of Israel of their hands in what is going on.
And as I said in my previous post, I have seen this exact sort of rhetoric being used to discourage progressives from voting for Democrats or even voting at all. I know that is not your intention, but unfortunately it is happening. We are already fighting an uphill battle with Republicans placing as many barriers to voting as possible, with voter ID laws/decreasing polling places, making it illegal to provide water or shade to those in line and creating things like deSantis’s Office of Election Crimes to discourage people who legally have the right to vote from exercising that right. We do not need to be furthering those aims by contributing to the Both Sides Are Equally Bad discourse.
I think it’s pretty obvious that I heavily disagree with you on that assertion. I wish that I saw people caring about what happens to the Palestinian people (who I agree are undergoing a genocide at the hands of Netanyahu’s government) to the extent that it would turn the election, but I don’t. That’s not the world I live in. I see way too many people happily cheering on the atrocities commited by the IDF as well as too many folks on the left who are still caught up in the whole Zionist thing.
I don’t appreciate the assertion that I haven’t taken any time to learn about what is really going on. I have and came to the conclusion that this particular thing here it is too complicated for me. You may call it tragic.
But this is not the cause I have chosen to champion or the one that will make the difference in my politics. I’m a disabled immigrant woman living in Florida, working a full time job while navigating caring for aging parents who have extremely limited resources, being made more limited by every round of funding cuts the state legislature chooses to enact. That same legislature is banning books and medical care and even fucking water breaks for people working outside in 100F heat. I was born under a dictatorship because 30 years prior the American CIA had a problem with the properly elected officials in my country.
I have other priorities than the convoluted relationship between the USA and Israel. This may make me a monster in your eyes and I’m sorry to hear that because I honestly think we agree significantly more than we don’t. But I really don’t take well to being lumped in with genocide.
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Ok cool. I guess we aren’t talking in good faith here.
I’m bowing out from this conversation with you.
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I am Jewish and this was my honest response. I refrained from saying it at first. Because of course nobody can bring up the Holocaust. Except the Holocaust is being used constantly to justify what Israel is doing now.
You are talking about your personal experience, and I’m talking about mine. That is the thought that made me cry.
The Republicans aren’t in the White House. Biden has been supplying money and weapons to Netanyahu and providing political cover at the UN. Saying there are no red lines.
This is not a millenia old “conflict” this is an outgrowth of British colonialism taking advantage of a traumatized people.
I’m not absolving Republicans or Netanyahu of SHIT. Just like saying Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean only Black Lives Matter, saying democrats are committing genocide doesn’t mean that nobody else is.
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I’m really confused by “Biden lost the election because he backed genocide”
Also, genocide is a huge fucking issue, but it’s one of many. Given all the horrible shit going on in America and around the world, it doesn’t make sense be a single issue voter.
MJ, I understand that this is your one big issue, but it’s one of an overwhelming number of issues for others of us. I do what I can, but then I have to look away. I don’t have the capacity to maintain high levels of grief and outrage over the long term without harming myself. Harming myself will help exactly zero Palestinians. It’s better for me to focus on the things I can make better in my sphere of influence than stay glued to atrocities happening far away that I have no power over.
The level of passion you are maintaining, if I did it, would be harmful to me and wouldn’t make a single bit of difference in Gaza.
That’s not indifference. It’s being a person.
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^^ Since you asked where the personal attack was. This is insulting and condescending. This was a bad faith discussion from the start.
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I have helped raise over $25,000 in the last 3 months to help families in Gaza get food, water, and medicine and be able to evacuate.
I’m not telling anyone here to fundraise or protest full time. But y’all are telling me to stop talking about it at all. Because i posted twice in 9 months in the “wrong” thread.
We all have governments that have been funding and arming Israel. Most US politicians just applauded Netanyahu.
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Good! That’s amazing.
I think the pushback you’re getting it because it’s nearly the only thing you’ve posted about. You aren’t engaging with friends if you only talk about one thing. You know this place is full of people sharing their authentic lives and selves. If you just show up now and then to ask what everyone is doing about the issue that matters most to you, you aren’t participating in community. I don’t mean this as an attack. It’s my observation about your behaviour here over the last few months. There is more to you than you’re sharing. Which is fine, but sucks for us.
There are lots of politically astute activists on this forum, but the forum isn’t focused exclusively on that part of their lives.
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This is nearly the only thing I’m focused on in my real life. This is my authentic self. It’s discouraging to put a lot of effort into writing about what I’m doing in a space where the issue hasn’t gotten much engagement.
My main frustration has been the disconnect between now and 2020. During the big summer of BLM protests, it was everywhere on this forum. People were reading books about racism and reflecting on our own internalized white supremacy and defensiveness to being called out on white supremacy. But now the discussion petered out quickly, even in the thread specifically devoted to discussing Gaza.
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The 3? Times you came back, I did wonder about that thread, and I’m going to hop over in a minute and chat about the genocide with you there!
I’m a woman of mixed background, and I live next door to the USA. If I lived in the USA my number one voting priority would be women’s and people’s rights domestically, and stopping the genocide/s secondly. We have an election coming up ish and those will be my priorities - but my individual rights are less threatened here. So I understand the choices people are making with their votes and that the suckiness of 2 party systems meaning there is noone to vote for both priorities.
I very much hope that Kamala Harris’ relative youth means she has the sense to realize what’s happening
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What’s this? An on-topic post? Please pardon the interruption, but I found this interesting:
Also: “veepstakes” 
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I don’t think anyone is telling you to not talk about it all. Someone just told you that it was an important conversation but the meme thread was the wrong place for it, several months ago. Which we have done with other off topic discussions, of even less importance, on the meme thread and the feel good threads.
I’ll also note that with BLM protests in summer of 2020, most of us were stuck at home. Many weren’t working at all. Rent and evictions were paused. Groceries didn’t cost a bazillion dollars. there was a different level of energy available to put towards activism.
The forums have also shrunk in size since then since the show is not publishing anymore.
All that to say, I am continually impressed by your organizing and fundraising you are constantly doing it. On other social media I see constant updates about people working on Palestine, including a friend of mine (who you also know) who just got back from medicing in Gaza and the West Bank.
Because of my job, I can’t do anything public for anything even a little political, not even give my friends running for city council $5 or a Facebook like. not make statements about bodily autonomy. I can donate my own money privately to causes (not campaigns as that is public) and have been doing so.
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