This is an area of fascination for me as well! This doesn’t really apply in my case as I didn’t grow up poor, but I’m always interested by how people react to the same circumstances in such different ways.
For most of my life (like up until the last 3 years or so) I didn’t know anyone who had been through a lot of the same experiences as I’ve had, so I assumed my perspective was a natural result of those experiences. I would think to myself, “well I can be compassionate because if they had x happen they would understand y and think about it like I do!” And then I finally met people with more similar backgrounds to myself and I was like…oh that was totally wrong, lol. Some had my outlook and others had the exact inverse, or something else entirely. It really amazed me to get to know people who had a similar background to me but who behaved like people I’d perceived as having the opposite background.
I erroneously thought the experience itself was what produced the result, not the reaction to the experience. So then I had to completely reframe compassion and where that comes from for me, because I still have to love everyone no matter what. Believing I understood why they were a certain way, especially if they way they were was challenging for me, helped me have compassion before. Now I’ve accepted I have to be ok not knowing why they are a certain way and still love them anyway. Them being justifiable in some way or ultimately like me (if they had xyz happen) can’t be a prerequisite! Kind of an embarrassing revelation that I was orienting myself that way, haha, so ego-centric- but it was necessary to go through!
I like how Ramit discusses the stories we tell ourselves and how dangerous identity can be, and how careful we should be about clinging to identities/subsuming things as identities. I also like how he talked about conscious and subconscious ways people can use strategies to help shield themselves from all kinds of realizations and discomfort.
Okay this most recent couple and their spending. $4000/month on take out??? How???
Maybe I’m not considering the cost for having 3 kids in there but this is a lot of very very nice food.
How are they not considering lifestyle changes? $3500 for her trip to Cabo sounds like first class to me, which is fine but like come on people.
I actually think Ramit did a good job in the interview on this one by just asking questions for the most part. I couldn’t tell when he was yelling into the audience or yelling at them at the end though.
I wonder if they expected to come on here and have Ramit tell them to keep living their rich life. I wonder why Dave Ramsey and other tools haven’t worked for them. I want to hear more from the husband about all of this.
I also did not grow up with generational trauma so maybe it is callous for me to say this: how far are you going to dig yourself into a hole and blame the generational trauma for your circumstances? At what point is that belief not serving you and you’re just using it as an excuse to do whatever you want?
Like with raising your girls, it doesn’t seem like lack of money was the issue for her parents. It sounds like her fathers decision making on family finances without regard to family needs is the issue with her childhood. I bet if her dad wasn’t buying cars and tvs and other stuff that didn’t work for the family before consulting the family they wouldn’t have had financial trouble. And she is doing the same thing to her family that her dad did, just in different budget categories.
Wowza this episode lit up all sorts of emotions for me.
I didn’t listen to it that closely but I was seriously rolling my eyeballs through most of it – especially the bit where she talks about how a big chunk of that new credit card balance was for a ridiculously expensive COACHING program that she paid for after she lost her main client. I mean – HELLO!!! When you are worried about your income dropping you don’t go throwing away money on poorly defined coaching services. I was kind of surprised Ramit didn’t push her on that one, or ask what kind of business she does. I’m guessing something not terribly well defined, maybe MLM-ish?
But people who can’t figure out how to live within their means on a 300k+ income truly baffle me.
I don’t think you’re being callous, fwiw. So much generational trauma is caused because people use this exact excuse, at least that’s been my experience. Maybe/hopefully she will get there one day, but unfortunately a lot of people feel that surviving something is the end goal, instead of the first step on a long path.
The takeout expenses floored me too! I imagine it must be frequency and ordering a whole lot/relatively expensive food every time. If they spend $100-$150 a day, that’s about right. I can’t imagine they’re getting $6 falafels and stuff, haha. I was thinking it would be fun to try and do it for a month, but I think I’d be so sick of restaurant food I’d tap out after less than a week.
I can confirm after work travel and eating out at fancy restaurants for a week is about my limit. I crave home cooked veggies and simplicity after about a week.
I did have a $45 avocado toast one time, lol.
I guess if they are eating out for 5 people 3 meals a day, $150 isn’t that outrageous? Like still outrageous but I can see where the money goes. It’s interesting what people spend that shocks me. I am sure people would also be shocked what I spend but in different categories too.
Haha, same here! I think the food thing shocks me most because, like you said, I just couldn’t stomach that much restaurant food! The first thing I do when I get back from a vacation is cook because I’m dying for something homemade. And I like restaurants! But all the time?!?! I feel a bit sick if I eat it that much.
Yeah…we spent $90 on takeout fancy Indian food for 3 last night that included a delivery fee and driver tip so if they order in all the time would definitely add up! (We did get two lunches out of the meal as well).
I like to say that people often turn into their parents or the exact opposite of them, but to do the opposite usually requires a conscious choice.
Sometimes people look in the rearview and say they grew up poor until you start discussing specific things, and then the definition of poor varies a lot. It sounds like she grew up in the same situation that she’s creating for her kids. Which is not actually impoverished, but just financially stressed. Big difference IMO.
Finished listening, whew. I can’t wait to hear all of your reactions. The comments section on youtube is pretty good for this episode.
One thought I kept having is, “why put yourself through this in the hopes that your children will end up where you are, when you hate where you are?” I’m referring to the whole private school thing (whose end is IMO making sure the kids are eventually high earners whose social sphere is other rich people). But the parents are at that end point now! They achieved what they want their kids to do! They are high earners living among other rich people, and they’re miserable.
I don’t think they’ll change their money habits at all. I think they’re counting on that inheritance and making more money in the future. The way they reacted to the suggestion of getting less expensive cars told me everything I needed to know, lol. Ramit said they never even sent him an updated spending plan, which has never happened before on the show. This episode was like a fable.
I am listening now, about 45 minutes in.
This couple doesn’t need Ramit, they need Gail.
And the idea that she can cut 90% of her business costs? Something’s not right.
And I think he told them they couldn’t use their bonuses they haven’t gotten yet in this years budget, but then he had them estimated and used it, but then he said they didn’t.
I think Ramit is using smoke and mirrors, they aren’t going to remember what they need to change but he’s giving them a false sense of security.
This is painful to listen to, I don’t feel Ramit is helping them at all.
The husband asks Ramit straight up if they are setting themselves up for failure.
I’m like, Ramit, Say YES!!!
Ramit does not say yes, he gives this rambly waffly answer.
What a missed opportunity.
It sounds like the husband gets it by the end. Although I think he had a good sense of what was going on before the show.
The wife is even making noises that she gets it, but I’m skeptical. I think she’s kind of responding to peer pressure in the moment and it not going to give up on private school this easily.
I wish YNAB had a podcast like this. I feel like so many of these couples need YNAB more than Ramit.
I think this was really hard to listen to. I liked how he walked them through the sacrifices that they are going to have to make and that they need to stop relying on bonuses or big windfalls to get into things.
I think something Ramit did well was not reacting to her crying. I have a feeling that she uses this often when she is being questioned, starts crying and then nothing has to change. I understand this is upsetting and crying seems like a very normal response. Just after listening to these past two episodes she really only starts crying when she is questioned, and that seems very manipulative to me.
I agree with @JRA64 he went in circles and used too many words. I think simplicity could have been a bit better here. I think he was flustered with the discussion and the lack of straightforward answers from the guests too.
One youtube comment that I 100% agree with is that they (potentially more she) has an “all or nothing” mindset about these changes. There is no creativity of flexibility. With kids activities, are they really going to pull their kids out of all activities? I doubt it, but what about looking at a different soccer league or finding other ways to get them their enrichment for less than $800/month? She can cut 90% of her business expenses? What would be the consequences and why hasn’t she already? They can cut all subscriptions? She is going to stop their gym memberships? They either have a $75k car or take public transportation? They either have to do private school or move out of state? It makes it impossible to look at any changes when you instantly jump to a nonrealistic “alternative”.
I am really thankful for this community (and a little bit MMM) for helping to break this all or nothing mindset for me and many others. Once you define the end goal there are so many ways to get there. Many of you here have helped me with this personally and I am so grateful!! While we mostly encourage those of us here to live our rich lives and spend on things that we might not otherwise there is usually questions like “can you get it on buy nothing? are there other ways to get the same outcome? etc” It is a really awesome balance.
I think the best part for me about this episode is seeing the numbers behind a really high income family and seeing how they are still accumulating debt. That is a concept that has always been difficult for me to wrap my head around but looking at each line item in their budget, by themselves, doesn’t seem that outrageous. It is everything together that causes the issue.
Ok, one meeting got out early and I started listening. I just had to start laughing because Ramit is talking about how their fixed costs are 151% of their take home pay (OMG ) and he said “no one makes spending decisions based off a spreadsheet.” I think there are many of us that do that! I would never buy something like a car without a spreadsheet!!
I’m really confused, if she is self employed, why does she think she will have a $20k bonus? Like where is that money coming from and wouldn’t she just be counting it in her normal income? Obv I have never owned my own business, but that doesn’t make sense to me.
This episode was like a fable.
) and he said “no one makes spending decisions based off a spreadsheet.” I think there are many of us that do that! I would never buy something like a car without a spreadsheet!!