Woah, this latest episode is really something.
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iām honestly scared to listen based on the description! (not like scared for my life scared, just scared i will want to throw my phone against the wall upon listening).
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That is what I am expecting too 
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Iām still mad at Ramit for the last series. Donāt sell the condo!!!
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Itās pretty rough because the girlās mom is clearly like, a full blown something- manipulative to the max in a way beyond the norm way. Itās clear she is terrified of her. Hereās a tidbit to give you an idea: they owe the mother money because she bought them a car without asking as a gift and demanded they pay her back for it. And when the girl explains that she doesnāt seem to realize how totally insane that sounds. The mom also paid off part of their debt for them and is now making them repay that, with interest. All in they owe the mom $40k in like, cars, basically. Itās fucked. And they both think if they change the terms of how they deal with her, or even try to pay off debt on their terms not hers (she even harasses them for buying a rug, bc all money should go to her) they think she will sell the car out from under them. The reason they think sheād do it is because it would make them vulnerable and put them in a tight spot. Likeā¦wtf.
To his credit like halfway in Ramit asks her if sheās in therapy and she says yes. And heās really encouraging to her. He also says, to the listener, that itās great to listen to his podcast but it is not a replacement for therapy and that everyone who needs it and can get it should get therapy, de-stigmatize things, etc. I think even he realized he was in too deep. Sweet enough couple tho. Just clearly very used to dysfunction.
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I listened to the latest episode and thought it was one of his best. There were a couple of sections where he was ranting less and it made it so much easier to listen to and be on board with what he was saying.
I liked the breakthrough that Cal had - when he was a teenager and his parents talked or fought about money he disappeared, and when his wife wanted to talk about money he disappeared too. Since she couldnāt talk to him, she ended up going to her mom / family for advice / help. It seemed like they made a big shift from him not wanting to talk about money at all (he travels a lot for work and when home, just wanted to enjoy time with wife and kids) to them working together as a team.
She realized she had very little confidence around money and needed to grow to become competent and confident. I think she and they are still going to have a hard time setting boundaries with her mom, but at least Cal is on her side now.
For the first time Ramit admitted that the daily $$ coffee purchase can be a problem.
The follow-up emails were cool too. Here are some excerpts froom Katie:
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Still on bedrest so why not, even if its jumped the 
Episode 52
Shill shill shill. We always start the same.
Jeff and Lisa are in their 40s. Jeff doesnāt want to be involved in money, he hides purchases, which is another way to say his pants are aflame IMO. Lisa says she feels bad for Jeff because he hides purchases? IDK.
We open with Lisa, she describes them as high earners. Six months ago she won a seven figure settlement, life changing. It was for $1.275 million, post tax. Dayyyymn. Before that their income was like $150k a year and their net worth was $300k combined. Ew, I already hate this guy, he says āI always tell her that her money is her money and my money is her moneyā. Sheās like, no it isnāt, I always tell him it isnāt. Ramit is telling us this is revealing about Jeffās mindset on money (no, itās a manipulation tactic).
Lisa has a bunch of questions, she says. They have a financial advisor. Ramit is telling us āyou canāt delegate your money management the way you can mowing your lawn.ā Heās ok with some types of financial advisors but he says this particular person represents a big problem in their relationship.
They pay a percentage based fee of .9% and Ramit is telling them thatās terrible and you should never pay that type of fee. Lisa says she found the guy because heās her momās advisor. Lisa says he helped her allocate her 401(k) and it performed well during good years but not anymore. Ramit tells her sheās rich and sheās like āwell thatās toughā and Ramit goes āoh not this again!ā Haha, Iām with you, Ramit. Jeff says, āI have a tough time with it! Iāve seen it disappear over the years and itās fear based!ā I cannot stand this guyās affect.
Ramit asks what itās like when they talk about money. Lisa says she tries to bring something up and Jeff will aggressively tell her no and shut her down, Jeff of course interrupts her and says he disagrees and that he actually usually makes jokes, like āhey whatever you want goesā which is not a joke but a sexist deflection.
With some pushing Ramit gets Jeff to admit heās overly aggressive and defensive and that he uses that to get what he wants. Ramit says that keeps Lisa as the pursuer and gets Jeff out of the conversation. Ramit is suspicious of Jeffās honesty, and says that in itself is a technique. YES RAMIT. He asks how Jeff treats money, āthereās always gonna be more but thereās never gonna be an abundanceā. Jeff says whenever he adjusts his spending upward he makes more money after, lol. Heās working on a business, financials, etc. but he says he relies on Lisa for the personal finances and that works well for him. He says thereās no real reason to change other than that itās not fair or honest. 
What a keeper.
Now weāre asking how Lisa treats money. She says she wants to control it. Logs into her accounts daily. She says thereās some dread about the current market every time she logs in. She says she reacts emotional based on the market. Itās a bit of self-torture. Sheās afraid sheāll blow up one day and have an over-reaction. Girl you are seriously UNDER reacting to the main issue in your life. YES RAMIT! He says, āIād love to see an over reaction from you, if anything youāve under reacted!ā RAMIIIIIT. We like you today, Ramit.
For now Lisa says her biggest reactions are just, not talking a lot. Ramit points out that this is exactly what Jeff wants. Jeff interjects and says, āRamit youāre the overreaction, youāre putting me in my place, she needed helpā. I donāt mean to be a stone cold asshole here, but there is something really wrong with this guy. Like, 1990s lifetime movie wrong.
Ramit is like, what does putting you in your place mean? Jeff says youāre calling me on my BS and then says, āIām a little too honest with myself and other people even though I hide behind this kind of crap sometimesā then says that Lisa will āendure worse than I can dish out, and has, I donāt take advantage of it, but I donāt I mean itās a fact of our lifeā. He says āfor the most part I know she wonāt come at me, Iām taking advantage of that to a certain extent.ā I FUCKING KNEW IT.
Ramit is calling out that contradiction. He says he finds them puzzling and says he looked at their application and talked to his colleague (hi probably gay Sydney! We remember u girl). He says they both self-edit a lot. Ramit is like, either youāre taking advantage of her or not. Youāre either honest or not.
Ramit asks how Lisa would describe Jeffās interaction with their finances. She says mostly hands off, hands his paycheck over, seems ok with that unless thereās something he wants to buy- heāll make comments that he doesnāt want to ask permission for large purchases. He charged some running shoes to credit cards, he interrupts, he got a PayPal line of credit for him only. He says, āthis is hard to admit but I hide purchases from herā donāt worry readers he has a good reason, he legit says, āitās for the sole purpose that I donāt have to discuss the purchase with herā. Oh good, what a normal way to be a person. He says he feels āa little bitā of guilt about lying, even though āIām not really lyingā. Ramit is like, do you tell her later because she finds out and youāre backed into a corner and heās like, āyeah well when the shoes show up at the house I have to tell herā.
Lisa says she likes to avoid conflict. Unless itās a huge problem sheāll just deal with it on her own. This poor lady. She says he has an attitude of āItās just money Iāll make moreā and says heās actually super frugal? She is literally like, covering up for him. This is sad, yāall. IDK if I can finish this one. 
Iām going to finish listening and am up for chatting about this but like, this is just, really sad so I think my recap is done. Lisa is just too close to home (to me) and the husband is too much like family I grew up with. I really feel for her though <3 just too heavy for me today when Iām already stuck, etc. Sorry babes!
Done, I guess?
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Ooh Lisa you need a hug and to gtfo. Yeah that sounds too hard to finish.
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Ugh this one sucks. I feel for Lisa so so so much. She needs to take her 1.25 mil and run
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Totally agreed, this one was hard to listen to. I really feel for her and I hope she goes through with the post-nup he suggests at the end.
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why am i suddenly hearing this song in my head?
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First of all Iāve never heard that song and omg THAT IS JANE KRAKOWSKI!!! SHE IS A TREASURE.
Also I didnāt know there was a white country version of No Scrubs, but this is obv it.
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I made it to the part where they start talking about the financial advisor.
I agree this was a tough listen and hope Lisa gets some help & therapy.
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The most encouraging part of that letter. I hate that the rest of Jeffās letter makes it sound like he put all of his discomfort over hearing his own āvillainyā RIGHT onto Lisa. Ugh
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Thank you for posting but UGHHHHHHHHH haha. So for those of you who didnāt grow up with, uh, super manipulative people. Here are all the red flag tells in Jeffās letter. I consider it the silver lining of my upbringing that I can read people like this so fast and avoid them. I genuinely do live react (Iām a fast typist) so my calling of him early on was totally genuine, I didnāt know where the conversation was going.
Translation: I agreed to this because I thought Iād have a higher level of control in the conversation, and that it would get me good boy points while also making me look good.
Translation: I allowed myself to look like a villain, even though Iām totally not, and it made ME feel bad afterward.
Translation: Sure, she has to tiptoe around my feelings BUT I DO THE SAME THING WITH HER so weāre even.
Translation: I was heroic and chivalrous in the call, accepting full responsibility so Lisa didnāt have to, even though a lot of it is her fault too.
Translation: I was horrible to be around after this and treated Lisaās first airing of her real feelings as an attack.
Translation: I wish I had listened to full episodes of the show so I could have better manipulated the conversation, and avoided looking like a total douche. You made me look bad on purpose even though Iām not really any worse than anyone else.
Translation: I didnāt get praised at all during the conversation, which is unacceptable. And everything wrong that I do, Lisa also does, itās unfair we didnāt talk about that. She is equally to blame but it is not my fault for not brining that up.
Translation: I am better than what I DEMONSTRATED and I am also better than how I actually act towards her.
Translation: I have solved this, heroically. I am accepting self-centeredness. This is no longer a problem.
It goes on but you get the picture. Phrasing is pretty important in dealing with people like this.
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nailed it!!!
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Thereās several red flags in Lisaās letter that show up too - she actually is walking on eggshells because Jeff will make her manage his feelings, but she doesnāt quiiiite understand thats why sheās uncomfortable after the call. No honey, its not an āusā thing, its a āhimā problem. I hope they have a skilled and aware couples counsellor, but Jeff might blow it up if he cant control the conversations there too.
Also, Lisa, the postnup is because your hubby will drain your money if you get a divorce. You wont walk away 50/50 
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I knowwwww 
that was kind of sad. She has no idea how bad it really is because heās pretty good at what he does and she doesnāt understand his tactics.
THIS.
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You are 100%. Honestly reading that e-mail was super triggering to me as someone who grew up with a narc/manipulative parent and had a long term relationship with a narc. If you arenāt used to reading between the lines of the way that these people communicate, it almost seems like heās a good dude. I stand by my earlier comment that Lisa needs to get her money and run
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Yeah I wish we were having this conversation on a forum on Ramitās site so that Lisa (and some of the other people from these episodes) could read comments from the listeners.
ETA: I hope Lisa shares this episode with their new therapists.
I hope she gets a good individual therapist and gets directed to a good support group or two. Iām still reeling from listening to this one.
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