I Will Teach You to Be Rich: Podcast Gossip and Discussion

[AllHat]

I agree with @Economista and @madgeylou.

To me this and things like this feel like they reflect the author’s inability or unwillingness to accept (not love and approve of, accept) that the world is not perfect. It’s unfair that I’m disabled and so many people aren’t, right? I didn’t do anything to deserve that. Nothing will change that. I have less of many things because of it (but more of others IMO). And my PT is hard and painful and won’t make me totally able! I have to force myself to do it even when I don’t want to. I can’t just inTUitiVeLy mOve wItH jOy. Should I stop doing PT? Um, no. Should I start smoking and drinking again because I’ll never be as genetically blessed as some people? Also no. Do I have to put in far more effort, discipline, and pain into achieving lesser results than many other people do? Yes. I think it’s possible to practice acceptance while still pushing for change. We can change policies and understand the nature of life at the same time IMO. And also we can promote workarounds, because I’m not going to be alive in 150 years, I’m alive now. I need stuff I can do now and this is the stuff that helps me the most.

The moral IMO is that not everyone can live a life without any friction while fulfilling every passing desire. I frankly don’t even think that leads to happiness to begin with, lol, but even if it did it’s like a child’s pipe dream! Change is always hard, but it can be great! I also think some of this comes down to personality type. I don’t associate building discipline with deprivation. To take it back to the physical again, every single day I am depriving myself of cigarettes and alcohol. I. Loved. Smoking. Haha. And guys I looked so cool doing it! I loved drinking too. Mmm, a cold beer? A hot tea and brandy?! Forget about it! So good. But not good for me. I don’t experience this lack as deprivation but as evolution. I have evolved to realign my values and because of that I no longer have the same urges I used to. I genuinely don’t even want it. It’s literally just not who I am anymore. But in the really early days, uh yeah, I was just gritting through for a bit. Changing your spending and money management can be the same IMO.

The other thing that feels like personality type to me is this kind of, very literal way of taking advice and taking it so personally when a lot of it is just, for dramatic effect or using generalities for ease. I see that with reactions to MMM too. HE SAYS EVERYONE HAS TO BIKE! ABLEISM! Like, lol, it’s just his opinion and I don’t think he literally thinks someone like me should buy a bike, and even if he does…uh, I don’t care? He doesn’t strike me as particularly wise in this area, or as having his grit tested very much. He’s just some guy and I’m not fussed that he thinks it’s safe to bike on a highway or that he thinks Colorado is the best place to live (disagree) or that fashion is stupid (hard disagree). I think his stance on pets is tragic, his world view narrow, and I think he lies to himself a lot about a lot of things (i.e. spending so much on hobbies but making it business).

But I love MMM and totally recommend him to other people! I owe him and the whole forum crew a lot. I think he’s super smart in ways I’m not, and he helped me understand habits better and made me less afraid of math. And Dave Ramsey too! I learned so much from both guys. I totally disagree with Dave on religion, politics, and probably a million other things. But he’s just one dude giving advice. He can’t make me do anything, lol, he’s not like, busting into my home and mandating that I do things or else. Why on earth would I be emotionally affected by him thinking I’m going to hell for being bisexual or whatever? Or that I’m a moron for not buying a house? He even said on one call that being disabled isn’t an excuse for poor finances bc guys he totally has a disabled friend and they can work. LOL. That’s fine! He can totally think that. But I can still do whatever I want. Like he’s just a personal finance dude, lol, that’s it! I don’t take it SO seriously or personally. I just take the bits that work and leave the rest.

[AllHat]

@noodle

could be interesting to dive into together

YES

[Ferngully]

We still haven’t found our next podcast yet and I think the reason is we’re just waiting for @allhat’s season one to drop.

[kenner]

The podcast might be interesting, but I can’t quite tell what the focus is from that first page (like @Bernadette said, there seem to be a couple ideas getting mashed together). On a societal level yep, lots of systemic issues to work on, certainly a lot of content to be discussed. And on an individual level those systemic issues certainly don’t go away, but at the same time if the point is specifically to help someone trying to get through the month, I don’t see how the label applied (budget/conscious spending/whatever) really matters…knowing what’s coming in and going out is kind of the starting point to work from, and there are limits on what is available.

[meerkat]

This reminds me a bit of parenting. Do not accept any one person’s thoughts as gospel that will be the magic thing to fix everything for your infant/toddler/kid/tween/teen. Some kids love pacifiers, others hate them. Some kids are cautious, others are daredevils. But one thing that I love about living in these modern times is I can read a bunch of different advice, try different things, and keep what works for me. Am I going to become Christian because of Dave Ramsey? Hell no. Am I going to take up biking because of MMM or make my hobbies into a business? Also hell no. But I can pick out what works for me from there and the personal finance subreddit (I like their wiki a lot) and various other sources.

And like was said above, even though she says “Don’t do this one thing” she has no other suggestions on what to do instead. I’m curious if when the podcast does come out if it’ll be like Ramit’s tunnel vision about not wanting to have to budget.

[mountainmustache29]

@AllHat

I just take the bits that work and leave the rest.

If you made a podcast I would totally listen.Not that you are planning too, but just wanted to throw that out there haha.

I hard agree with the take what works and leave the rest philosophy, but I think a lot of that is a factor of my upbringing and knowing if I were to cut off every single person in my life that doesn’t align with me on everything, I’d literally have no one. I’ve learned a lot from people like Frugal Fit Mom, and I know she is very religious and has political beliefs I don’t align with, but I find her budgeting and meal planning tips super helpful, so I continue to watch. She doesn’t talk about her personal beliefs, I just happen to know because I’m an internet snoop, haha, but I find the information that does apply to me to be very valuable, so I’ll keep watching.

I always eyeroll when I read people on MMM forums who are like “if you keep your AC below 80 in the Summer you are soft. Life is about suffering.” Like, if you want to choose to suffer in that way, enjoy! I have my own suffering you couldn’t possibly understand, and I will keep on living the “soft” life with my 68 degree AC setting! Haha. But I’m not going to stop reading MMM just because of those people…I still get some really valuable stuff there!

[kenner]

I like the MMM forum, but I still find the number of people who assume that everyone has the same advantages they do/lives in the same location/has the same family circumstances kind of amusing. I’m generally in favor of the ‘take what’s useful and leave the rest’ approach, but occasionally it gets kind of ridiculous (ex. the guy who insisted that the obvious/easy way to avoid the pink tax was to shop in the men’s section–strangely enough he didn’t have a reply when a number of women asked where in that section he bought his bras )

[noodle]

@madgeylou

“conscious spending” vs “budget” seems like a distinction without a difference to me.

Oh same. Ramit’s whole anti-budget screed is similar, and his Conscious Spending plan is a budget, IMO, just oriented around what you want to spend instead of where you need to restrict, kinda?

Y’all are so smart I am loving the discourse

[noodle]

@Bernadette

Also, a data pet peeve: she quotes a survey that found that budgeters are just as likely to have debt as non-budgeters, and uses that to demonstrate that budgets don’t work. That’s like saying that people who take cold medicine have as many cold symptoms as people who don’t take cold medicine, so therefore cold medicine doesn’t work.

Dude yes!! I didn’t even consider that

[noodle]

@AllHat

I also think some of this comes down to personality type. I don’t associate building discipline with deprivation.

Fascinating distinction. I am nodding my head so hard

[noodle]

@mountainmustache29

@AllHat

I just take the bits that work and leave the rest.

If you made a podcast I would totally listen.Not that you are planning too, but just wanted to throw that out there haha.

@Ferngully

We still haven’t found our next podcast yet and I think the reason is we’re just waiting for @allhat’s season one to drop.

+1,000!

[darlingpants]

I also stopped reading AHP even though I liked the original burnout article because she insists that everyone is having a terrible time and the system is broken in a way that seems patently false to me. Like I’m not have a terrible time working in person, she’s obviously not having a terrible time working remotely, people are different and make different things work for them and her insistence no one can be enjoying their job and everything is doomed puts me off her arguments that I agree with! (That work doesn’t work for many people in broad swaths of job types and stuff needs to change)

That’s sort of tangential but I got the same vibe off that newsletter (even though someone else wrote it)

[noodle]

Yeah, too much of that “we’re systemically fucked” messaging is beyond demoralizing and drains me of hope. I’m sure some people get motivation out of righteous anger but it quickly goes down the depression path for me—might just be my temperament. As a millennial I constantly hear that stuff from every side. It’s not healthy for me to ignore the things I can do as one person today to improve my life/myself/my community, or never factor in gratitude for what I do have.

[noodle]

@mirepoix

@Economista

I’m assuming she means that rich people don’t have to look at their bank accounts and budget because no matter what they will have enough money, so we should remake the world in a way where no one ever has to look at their bank accounts or budget - but how is that even remotely possible? It’s not.

The odd thing is this authors counterpoint to Ramsey sounds exactly like evangelical Prosperity Gospel.

Ooooooo GOOD point

[meerkat]

@noodle

Yeah, too much of that “we’re systemically fucked” messaging is beyond demoralizing and drains me of hope. I’m sure some people get motivation out of righteous anger but it quickly goes down the depression path for me—might just be my temperament.

Oh was there supposed to be righteous anger? Yeah I missed that entirely and went straight to cynicism and depression.

[noodle]

Lol…saaaaaaaame

[AllHat]

@mountainmustache29

If you made a podcast I would totally listen.Not that you are planning too, but just wanted to throw that out there haha.

Haha, you’re way too kind. I actually would love to do a podcast but I’d basically need someone to do almost all of the grunt work other than the recording (editing, promoting, etc) because I couldn’t handle that workload. Maybe one day someone with lots of energy and ability will want a sassy co-host who just pops on to gab that would be perfect actually!

@mountainmustache29

if I were to cut off every single person in my life that doesn’t align with me on everything, I’d literally have no one.

That’s a great point and one I hadn’t considered! Also I totally know what you mean re: FFM, haha, there’s a framed picture and a couple things that gave her away. I get the sense she’s more liberal than most though, since she doesn’t wear the garments, but still. V religious and I imagine conservative. And I literally laughed out loud at the AC thing, hahaha, people who brag about totally optional “suffering” like that crack me up. Like yah ur so tough and I’m the wimp, lmao.

@kenner

where in that section he bought his bras

HAH! I didn’t see that but, wow, what a great response.

@noodle

too much of that “we’re systemically fucked” messaging is beyond demoralizing and drains me of hope.

A THOUSAND PERCENT. I find the negativity absolutely crushing. Like if I thought that way about everything I’d never leave the house again. Life is hard enough without talking constantly about how hard it is, lol. Also it’s just not the full picture at all. So many things are so so so much better than they used to be. And I feel like, we’re in the richest country in the world and I consider myself relatively privileged within that set. Feels kind of gross and tone deaf on a world scale to be complaining about how awful things are here. When like, so many people would give anything to come here. IDK, I mean I’m all for meaningful conversations about actual change but just “everything sucks” is very boring. And seems mostly to be said by people with ENORMOUS privilege. How totally not ironic, lol.

[darlingpants]

This may be a tangent but when people complain about how hard working in modern day America is (and it is! But somehow the people complaining aren’t usually doing manual labor for minimum wage or lower) I want to yell at them “Try subsistence farming and see how easy THAT is for you!!!” Like staying alive is hard. Nature doesn’t care if we’re alive or not. Landlords may be leaches on society but try building your own house from sticks you find in your neighborhood and see if that’s any better!

Anyway that’s my rant

[mirepoix]

Oh my god why does this link say “budget culture” upholds racism and sexism by encouraging investment in the market and then shows the statistics that low earners, people of color, and women are less likely to have investments. Like, any standard fare that’s not immediately a financial scam is literally advising everyone invest what they can by laying out how you’re screwed if you don’t. I’m so confused. Again, taking a personal stand against the oppressive concept of saving more than you spend, is not going to fix shorting stocks and bubbles and industry bail outs and private health insurance and the fossil fuel industry.

Edit: it gets worse. This first paragraph here.

I feel BAD because on a starting office grunt salary: my student loan bill and rent for the tiniest apartment in the city barely leaves $100/mo for groceries and I work extra hustles constantly like wtf!!!

[LadyDuck]

Wot
These people are seriously confused. Im suspicious and feel like they’re about to sell me something.

Are they about to sell me a Ramit type book? Like, I’m reading and no, my dude, that isn’t how a budget works, or how to feel comfortable with money, and it all just feels very scrambled. Also, this is why people should t be allowed to compare food to money. Diets and budgets are not the same thing. Its more like a meal plan? Like i plan the food and hey I’m not scrambling because I dont know whats for dinner.