I think he thinks he did a great job.
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I read the transcript. He did not.
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Whatâs his is his, whatâs hers our ours and needs to cover all expenses.
One place where MMM shines that Ramit falls very short -
MMM both allows comments on his blog posts, and has a forum on his site. He sometimes gets eviscerated in both, knows it, and keeps them (I read an interview about how some of the comments in the forum about his divorce really stung).
I WISH we were having this discussion on Ramitâs site. I wish some of these women who were in these relationships (and maybe the guys too) could read our comments. I hope it would give them some validation and courage to start standing up for theirselves.
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You could email him, he supposedly reads everything he gets.
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I think other people here have the best comments and I wouldnât feel right emailing those. Should we all email him?
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He seems to! Iâve emailed him about stuff twice before. Your first response is always from him and then thereâs a warm transfer to an assistant. Itâs a really interesting service model and I like it
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I just got 30 seconds in, I cannot believe itâs Actually this bad. Wow this guy is a user. And for what? He has $400k a year he doesnât need for anything material.
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If anyone really is going to email him please feel free to use anything Iâve written here (in any of the recaps or comments) either as is or paraphrased. You can totally sign it from you without credit or whatever, IDGAF, haha.
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I listened to this latest episode even though I knew it would make me rage.
So the husband doesnât just not mention a bonus that he got, but he LIES about it, hides it, and tells his wife that he doesnât get bonuses any more? And Ramit doesnât really address that and then later in the episode is like, âIt seems like heâs being pretty openâ. 
Also I noticed both of the people were talking about credit cards like they were these magical things that just randomly got higher and you couldnât predict it at all. Itâs not like you got surprised by a higher-than-expected electric bill one month. You bought the stuff you put on the credit card!
There was also a lot of emphasis on poolers vs. splitters, but I think either can work well if both people are on board and one isnât shady AF. Itâs not like pooling is a magical fix all.
Not relevant to this episode, but while Iâm complaining about Ramit, something Iâve noticed in other episodes when heâs talking to people who almost certainly have some kind of shitty MLM thing as their âbusinessâ is that even when heâs talking about how little revenue they are making, he doesnât ever ask about the expenses that are going into their âbusinessâ. Itâs like heâs equating revenue with profit, and Iâd bet that is very, very far from the case.
I donât know if Iâve ever observed someone do a worse job than Ramit did here while heâs thinking he hit it out of the park.
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Iâm on Ramitâs mailing list, because I find some value still. But really, in selling his new course:
"But we donât budget for it. No, instead, itâs all about automation. At the beginning of the year, we sit down and decide where we want to go this year, how long we want to go, who we want to take with us (if anyone), etc. Then we start to look at how much itâs going to cost.
Thatâs when automation kicks in. We set up our accounts to automatically redirect money into a sub-savings account each month."
I donât understand how that isnât a budget. I mean you can split hairs and say âwhat I mean by a budget isâŠâ but really, you just budgeted and funded that thing, it doesnât matter if you did it with automatic withdrawals or moved it manually every month.
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I think in his mind itâs different because youâre not having to itemize every single dollar you spend. Instead youâre putting away all the savings stuff first and then spending the remainder, but IMO thatâs still a form of a budget (a savings budget rather than a spending budget). Itâs also not at all a new concept, lol.
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Would love folksâ take on this piece!
Other budding financial experts saw the need for similar advice that dropped Ramseyâs religious exclusivity, and a new âeverymanâ niche in personal finance emerged around the turn of the century. It ballooned in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis and the popularity of personal blogs, where so-called everyday millionaires could chronicle their journeys out of debt and into the middle class. As millennials came of age, we had access to a world of financial advice by and for people like us â who told us jello could become crĂšme brĂ»lĂ©e.
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Iâm really torn on this one. Everything she says is true, but she doesnât provide any alternatives. Yes, she is correct that having a budget doesnât make up for systemic racism and certain classes of people having a low income. But, the alternative to not teaching them about budgets is just having them go into debt because they arenât living within their means? She talks about âbudget cultureâ like budgeting is a terrible thing that hurts people. Yes, we have the people who come on IWT and make millions of dollars and canât spend it because âbudgetâ and deprivation are so ingrained in them, but sheâs not arguing on the behalf of rich people, she is arguing on the behalf of poor people. And honestly, poor people really do need to budget! They need to know that they canât spend $1000 on groceries of they only have $2000 in income and their rent is $1000 and their car insurance is $200 and ⊠etc.
I think the world is a better place when there is more access to personal finance education and how to budget. I also donât understand her final sentence
Fighting budget culture means remaking the world in a way that lets everyone experience the ease of being ârich,â regardless of the numbers in their bank account.
Iâm assuming she means that rich people donât have to look at their bank accounts and budget because no matter what they will have enough money, so we should remake the world in a way where no one ever has to look at their bank accounts or budget - but how is that even remotely possible? Itâs not.
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Totally. I am learning more on the writerâs website, and it looks like theyâre launching a podcast soonâŠcould be interesting to dive into together. Seems like theyâre less anti-budget and more anti what they call âbudget culture.â This is what theyâd rather have folks do, I think?
Source: What Is Budget Culture? How This Sneaky Paradigm Hurts Everyone
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To me, she is conflating the personal and structural, and that weakens what sheâs trying to say.
- When you look at, say, the US, and see stats like 70% of people canât afford to cover a $500 emergency (I made those numbers up but you all know what Iâm talking about), clearly the biggest underlying issue isnât that people need to learn how to budget better. Dave Ramsey, âbudget culture,â etc. wonât solve that issue.
- At the same time, if you are a person with means that are not unlimited, you will likely be better off when you have a basic sense of how much money youâre bringing in and where itâs going. I have seen firsthand that my life is better when I know whatâs going where, and I can make more decisions with that in mind.
Also, a data pet peeve: she quotes a survey that found that budgeters are just as likely to have debt as non-budgeters, and uses that to demonstrate that budgets donât work. Thatâs like saying that people who take cold medicine have as many cold symptoms as people who donât take cold medicine, so therefore cold medicine doesnât work. Maybe there is a reason those folks are taking cold medicine in the first place!
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But I would argue that âconscious spendingâ in place of a budget will only work for people who have a privileged amount of money to begin with, and would be detrimental for anyone who makes less than the 90th percentile. I feel like âspending as much money as you want on whatever you wantâ is how the MMM forum ends up with people who are in their 50s, earn $200k + per year, and have 6 figures of debt with no retirement savings. Like the Beatles case study, if anyone remembers that.
I think I donât buy her argument that there is a âbudget cultureâ that is a bad thing
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âconscious spendingâ vs âbudgetâ seems like a distinction without a difference to me. exactly like âdietâ vs âlifestyle change.â
i also agree that budgeting doesnt solve systemic poverty. but it sure as hell can help with personal poverty â ask me how i know!
yes i hate how capitalism makes society-level responsibilities into individual failures but that doesnât mean that individual-level changes are worthless.
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No one who promotes âconscious spending plansâ ever tells you what to do when your âprioritiesâ are larger than your income. At least budgets are honest.
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The odd thing is this authors counterpoint to Ramsey sounds exactly like evangelical Prosperity Gospel. This is exactly how my evangelical, atrocious level of debt, not financially literate family is. Hearing my mom complain about how âtightâ the familyâs upper middle class income was and âitâs almost like I need to budget but I donât think I should have toâ 
is like one of the single most formative and disappointing moments of my life LOL. Also, Ramsey is very popular in the church communities that were founded on this, they definitely need it, not so clear they understand how to implement it. I really should re read his stuff. I donât like him, but id like to look over his points again. I really hate the evangelism of certain left political factions because itâs literally prosperity gospel. People donât magically get food and housing through positivity. at itâs worst it can be akin to God provides charity for the hungry and needy and is just as condesy. Like, no, citizens agree to take on certain responsibilities and expect them of elected leaders to take care of ourselves, others, and collective infrastructure.
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Sorry so many typos I was on the train to work. Love this Convo because it totally triggers my personal feelings, excited to see everyone elseâs thoughts later
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