All of these follow up comments are wild nonsense so I’m eagerly looking forward to reading the transcript and Allhat’s live react after my nap.
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It’s Buy Nothing Project. Or a related offshoot. Surely.
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Thank you, Ramit. These are the people who should be posting their stuff.
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I’m like 1/3 through and I hope Mike takes the kids and Nik gets serious therapy 
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@LadyDuck Yes, she did say it was buy nothing, which I agree is better than taking directly from an actual charity but it’s still not for people like her to use IM
Yup, me too. I mean these people think they can’t afford to get their used car fixed with almost $6 million in the bank, so I guess to them only $2 million and maybe a household income of like $300k is super tight? I cannot fathom using a charity as a wealthy person, or even as a middle class person for that matter. Zero shame in those services if you need them but if you don’t…uh, all the shame. LOL. I don’t think the money just appeared since their salaries are so high.
I know what you mean. I mean despite my snark (in reality) I do feel empathetic towards them on a spiritual level because I wouldn’t trade lives with them for anything in the entire world. They’re like, bankrupt in character and enjoyment and don’t even know it. Their life sounds totally joyless.
I wish Ramit had asked, “do you think it’s important to teach your children generosity?” or “are you worried your kids will be out of touch because of their privilege?” I mean…that would be an interesting conversation. Also, it irks me how he’ll very clearly be like, “people who earn what you do spend $2 million on housing, you should be spending that at least.” But then we’re supposed to act like $500 a month to charity is in any way admirable on their salary?
Hahaha, I forgot about that! Hope the popcorn was good 
@mirepoix Right?! I think the collection of free stuff was the most shocking part of all of this. Actually, I think it was the most shocking thing I’ve ever heard on any of these episodes. Imagine all the people who lost work during the pandemic going online to find their buy nothing had been practically cleaned out by these literal millionaires? So. Gross. A lot of homemaker groups were actually talking about doing the opposite when the pandemic started, like people who have pantries all the time (like yours truly) were donating stuff they could have used just out of kindness because it was a frightening time. And most of the people doing this were not rich, just understanding they had a lot and there were shortages. Crazy.
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Bingo. Nicole is entirely performative.
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Why do you think she did the show? That’s what I can’t figure out.
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I’m just barely caught up (on @AllHat’s summaries,.I don’t actually listen to podcasts).
Feeling like maybe I should sign up to be on the hotseat of this podcast but not quite ready for the roasting. We are way more rich than I ever imagined but only because of frugal habits that are hard to let go. And with a new mortgage plus childcare things are feeling “tight” even though we are objectively very wealthy. Hmmm.
But more importantly, should I not be using buy nothing??? I post more than I take, but I do take things if they are something I would use and I see it mostly as keeping things out of the dump. Please advise!! I’m trying to remember what I’ve gotten for free. Some ‘make your own popsicle’ molds that I put out and ask for and someone gave (I actually ended up trading for empty pots since the same person had an ask out for those). A few kids toys that I will pass along in a few months. A pair of blackout curtains that I ended up giving to my sister.
ETA: tipsy from the two cocktails that spouse made me tonight…am not normally this open about my wealth or this whiny.
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For me it was beyond the pale that they were picking up FOOD (and maybe diapers?) from buy nothing at the beginning of the F’ING PANDEMIC. That felt like a particularly egregious misuse of BN and not in the spirit of the group at all.
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Yes, this! They were taking what they didn’t need from people who were offering it to people in need… And then hoarding way beyond any ability to use it. It’s perfectly fine to be rich and get stuff off Buy Nothing, but to take far more critical items that people had posted specifically to offer to people who needed it - not just “I have a couple nappies left, kid has outgrown them” but “we know people are in need here are some nappies” and then take so much your house is literally overflowing?!
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At least with the Buy Nothing groups I’ve dealt with ‘No one over X income can use this’ would be directly contrary to their own stated purpose…I think some other people have phrased this better while I was typing, but I see a big difference between ‘For whatever reason I own a <thing> and I want it out of my garage’ and ‘I have <thing> that I’m willing to donate to someone in need.’ If they’d just been doing the first, fine, but they were doing the second which is just not okay.
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Oh gosh, well I’ve been toying with this being my last recap anyway, if that helps. I definitely don’t want you to not do the show because of me, especially if it would be helpful for you. I’m a bit concerned other people here may feel that way as well since this is a very wealthy space overall! It strikes me now that what I’m doing could be preventing someone from getting advice they need to improve their life because they are afraid of my snark, which was truly meant to be entertaining. I got a bit caught up in it, probably because I miss my writing career, haha- it felt nice to get feedback on being good at something again! Especially with no pressure and just, stream of consciousness writing, like I didn’t re-read anything before posting. But a comment on a different journal actually had me thinking about this already so it’s not only you. I think that kind of seals it for me, though. I don’t want to cause harm. So you should do it if it will help you! 
No more roasts from me. Just nice to feel useful again I guess, haha, that’s kind of pathetic but it’s the truth!
Only because you asked, no I would not use buy nothing as a rich person- except to post free stuff. I’d want people for whom that stuff would be a godsend to get it, not me. I just feel like…that’s not for me? I mean even food banks and places that give boxes of food have strict rules of never questioning anyone- rich people are allowed to use them. That’s not really breaking a rule, but I don’t think it’s right. I know other people feel differently and we each have to live according to our own code, but that’s where I land on it. I also don’t re-sell things that are used. I don’t think it’s helpful for me to charge someone for something that I wanted in the first place, when it’s highly likely they can’t afford it new but I could re-buy it like 5 times over. When I was less well off I was happy to take free stuff and now I’m happy to give it! I may have to take again in the future, and if I do I will without any shame, but definitely not now.
That’s just me though! I know plenty of rich people feel differently about stuff like that or even taking advantage of Medicade because they technically have a low income (but a high net worth and are retired), skipping covid lines by fudging things because it’s for the greater good, taking free food to save money, making things business expenses to minimize taxes, using other people’s accounts/addresses to get stuff, etc.
ETA: I also really don’t want high wealth people to feel like they can’t talk about their money openly. IMO that’s a massive part of why wealth inequity is where it is because I think the psychology is the same at a net worth of $5 million versus a billion. Scarcity mindset is through it all, plus some other stuff, but yeah that’s part of what’s so fascinating to me. And without way more transparency nothing will ever change! Because obscurity helps people avoid the uncomfortable conversations and realizations and growth. Even here on OMD (anonymous, internet, no judgment rule, literal money forum) and even in the net worth thread people often obscure their numbers. I really don’t want to contribute to that pattern because I think the snowball is actually pretty massive.
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Ooh, I find your stance on Buy Nothing particularly interesting as it’s supposed to be a hyper-local swap group, so most people in my group are a similar socioeconomic status to me, and the other use of it is to reduce overall consumption i.e. environmental impact of buying things new.
Definitely understand why you would feel like you’ve done enough live-reacts. They’ve totally helped me examine my own thoughts/ feelings as a middle to upper-middle class person more than the actual podcasts by Ramit himself did!
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I’ve only lived in big cities so maybe that’s part of my view! It honestly didn’t occur to me that a whole buy nothing group could be all rich people. I still probably wouldn’t use it except maybe to pick up free stuff and then drop it at a charity shop though, only because I would be worried that maybe if buy nothing didn’t exist there would be better stuff form rich people in the charity shops? Since that’s where those things used to go? Like it’s maybe filtering and keeping the best used stuff in a certain community rather than paying it forward?
IDK though- I totally see your point that it’s not as if you’re actively competing against poor people for stuff in that buy nothing group. That does change things a bit, especially if it’s really little shit like that you couldn’t give to a charity shop I guess that would be ok with me? Like if someone bought and opened a thing of some spice that they then didn’t use, and I liked that kind of spice? That seems ok to me, I think.
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Our group used to be geographically huge with a ton more socioeconomic diversity, and there was a lot of awesome gifting where stuff needed to go and people helping each other out, but we had a preemptive split well before 1000 people (because the neighboring groups were changing up boundaries so we did it all at the same time) and now it feels like there are a lot of rich people cleaning out their closets (but thankfully not just that, our group boundaries still have a decent mix but not the way it used to be). I’ve been told by people in the other group that their group sucks now and I’ve heard complaints in the current group that stuff doesn’t find a home the way it used to. Too bad groups never join back together once they split.
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I am here with Buy Nothing opinions! Obviously, all of us can draw the line wherever we want, but to me this feels like an @AllHat specific opinion (nothing wrong with that!) vs. a secret faux pas or rule that folks might have been missing.
As a non-rich, I do think it’s good for the affluent community (lol) to participate in Buy Nothing, both giving and taking. For fun (“fun”) I copied and pasted their mission and principles below, and it’s all about hyperlocal, community groups. The mission isn’t about getting XYZ to who needs it the most or providing a charity, but instead environmentalism and community.
I looove Buy Nothing and was really active in my group in Oakland, where there were multimillion dollar houses + housing projects, and also here in the Denver burbs, where I get the sense that we are well-off compared to other folks our age who are active in the group.
In the places where I’ve lived, there are so few groups that bring neighbors together, especially neighbors who might have disparate interests or identities, or have wildly different incomes. Connecting people to their neighbors is good, and if it means some people get free, I don’t know, old ass lamps who could pay for it,* it’s worth the tradeoff to me.
*It’s me, I have not paid for lamps
Whole thing copied and pasted in
Our Buy Nothing Project Mission:
We offer people a way to give and receive, share, lend, and express gratitude through a worldwide network of hyper-local gift economies in which the true wealth is the web of connections formed between people who are real-life neighbors.
Principles:
- We believe our hyper-local groups strengthen the social fabric of their communities, and ensure the health and vitality of each member.
- We come from a place of abundance ~ not scarcity.
- We believe in abundance, we give, we ask, we share, we lend and we express gratitude.
- We are a gift economy, not a charity. We see no difference between want and need, waste and treasure.
- We do not buy, sell, trade, barter, or otherwise exchange money for items or services.
- We measure wealth by the personal connections made and trust between people.
- We value people and their stories and narratives above the ‘stuff.’
- We are inclusive at our core.
- We value honesty and integrity in all our interactions.
- We view all gifts as equal; the human connection is the value.
- We believe every community has the same wealth of generosity and abundance.
My line is that, in this neighborhood + this season of life, I wouldn’t ask for something that’s high value that we could afford: e.g. a portable air conditioner. There also seems to be some food insecurity in the group, so I wouldn’t ask for food.
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I have donated a lot through craigslist and freecycle because I’m too lazy to deal with selling things and I figure someone else needs it more - or if they want to spend their time to resell, I’m ok with them doing so. I have taken some small things I could use immediately (I still have that knife block), and I’ve taken books from the free libraries.
But I don’t take from the free pantries, and I wouldn’t take anything that I wouldn’t start using right away. If there was a local person who was getting rid of open food because they were moving or they didn’t like the flavour, I might or might not depending on the amount of effort I feel like making.
If she was giving back and making it actually circular, if the kid’s clothing went back in for example… Just like how I use libraries and public transit, because it is better for keeping budgets up when everyone uses them.
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A great point too.
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I am a rich person who takes free things! But I see a huge difference between taking, like, lamps and books from BN and actually using them versus hoarding diapers or food during the early days of lockdown. It’s partly the scale that horrified me.
And there’s also the hyperlocal circularity thing that others have mentioned - I don’t think it’s wrong for rich people to participate in giving and taking. In fact I believe pretty strongly that it would be better for more rich people to actually be participants in their communities, especially when those communities contain a mix of class/income/wealth.
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Omg no, I love your recaps! Please don’t stop!
Sober me is much less whiny 
. Spouse and I are on a team about our finances, we’re not multimillionaires and since deciding to out down roots (aka buy a condo) in our vhcol are we aren’t even millionaires anymore because of all the house debt. Still very rich and privileged compared to many and I’ve always struggled with the balance between spending now and saving more but we get it wrong in different ways every year and learn from that. I love our home and it’s truly our Rich Life tm that we get to live in it! We are also going on two weeklong vacations this year after not traveling for at least five years and I think they got the perfect balance of not too spendy but also a treat for us.
The real reason I can’t go on the show is that inshp at target 
The baby is awake so I will opine on buy nothing later. I haven’t gotten to read all the replies yet!
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