I’m like a turbo charged bitch today so if you can’t handle the heat stay out of the kitchen!
The Kitchen AKA Episode 42 Live Therapy for AllHat...I mean live react. I'm doing great.
We’re opening with Ramit saying, “you know, I wrote a BOOK on money.” You didn’t accidentally open last week’s recap, it’s just the same, lol. He’d rather eat tacos than calculate spending blah blah, spreadsheets, blah blah gib him ur monies.
Music intro.
Woman is worried about divorce. Says 50% chance. Man says net worth is $5.7 million. Sad violins get a workout.
Ramit asks us what would make a couple argue over car repairs when they’re worth over $5.7 million, and then he says, “don’t scoff!”.
Ramit says if we’re listening to his podcast we’re likely to end up in a similar boat, because we’ll be rich but not have the skills to spend money. Already Wipes With Hundos AllHat isn’t so sure.
Nicole and Michael, welcome to the hot seat! Both are in their 30s. Wow. That’s so much money for anyone, but especially so young! Michael wants to use the money they save, but Nicole is a stone cold bummer about it.
Ramit tells us he wanted to talk to this couple because these types of stories aren’t shared enough. I mean, yes but also not that many people are multi-millionaires in their thirties so…that might have something to do with it. Ramit says our society is always focused on people who don’t have money, “and rightfully so,” but in our society everyone teaches you how to save! But no one teaches you how to spend!!!
Has Ramit not heard of marketing, keeping up with the joneses, payday advance centers, cheap credit at insane rates, constantly expanding seasonal sales, treating yourself, convenience spending, targeted SEO marketing? WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT? I mean I’m a proud card carrying capitalist but JFC our society is wayyyy overboard on consumption even by my estimation. But, Ramit says no one shows us what to do if we have enough. Perhaps society assumes people who can amass millions of dollars with ease can probably figure out how to fucking shop, but apparently not or this podcast wouldn’t exist.
Man says they have an old 2012 Nissan SUV. He got maintenance done, mechanic said he needed replacement part which he could get for labor only if he went with a used part-- it would save a few hundred dollars. Man (I’m not being a sex-essentialist I just have a hell of a time spelling the name Michael because in my brain it should be Michale) says he started thinking and realized maybe a new part was better for his family car since it’s just a small savings. The couple did the short term fix instead because they couldn’t agree on what to do, lmao. He called his wife from the mechanic and told her his plan but she said it was ridiculous and since they couldn’t agree on a car repair they did a cheap temporary fix instead, which sounds bonkers to me.
Ramit wants to know Nicole’s side. She said it’s never good news when Man calls from mechanic, so she knew it was bad news. It was so much money! But then he told her about the temporary cheap fix ($125) and she said she didn’t even weigh the pros and cons she immediately said to do the cheaper option. Man said that would only take them to the beginning of next year, but she said as long as it’s not right now it’s ok to push it off, because that would cost like $1,000 which I guess is too much for these millionaires. She says they have a (and these are her exact words), “largely arbitrary but very very important to us savings and investment goal that I feel compelled to meet every year.”
You know, that quotation gives Sociologist AllHat a thought. Maybe the human need to struggle some is what’s at play here. Think about it: they’ve created this artificial need for piling away more money, a specific amount even, and by straining in their real lives to meet it, and by doing things like putting off car repairs and comparing prices, they get to feel that positive side of “suffering” in some way. They get to play at struggle, in a sense, and it feels real to them even though it’s not. If they admit that there is actually no need to keep piling money because they have more than anyone could possibly want, the struggle game disappears. But you know what doesn’t disappear? The anxiety and angst…except now it can’t be blamed on the struggle game which means…THE ANGST IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!
Ramit’s like, so the question we all want to know is if $1k will even make a difference in your financial plan for the rest of the year. She says it probs wouldn’t make a material difference but they’re so close to hitting their goal and for her, if they hit it she feels financially secure and if they don’t she feels bad and agonizes. Oh and she’s an accountant, lmao. She admits it’s practically a rounding error. She says spending money makes her so so nervous. If they even spend $1k they are moving their wealth in the wrong direction. She’s afraid they could “lose it all” whenever any money goes out. This is part of why giving to charity and financial generosity in general is so important.
She continues, “we could lose financial security”, could lose everything they’ve built, they wouldn’t have the money to house their children or buy food!!! GIRL. They’d have a rough life like what she had growing up.
Ramit is telling us he empathizes with her. He tries to understand why people feel nervous. They don’t know themselves sometimes! But he also doesn’t allow people to use that as a crutch. He finds sometimes people repeat their problems and hang onto them like a child’s blankie. YES RAMIT I AGREE. It reminds them of why they haven’t been able to move past the problem, and in a way it comforts them. YES. Yes Ramit. He’s using a shitty analogy about how people can adapt to other things, but with money we give ourselves an out.
Nicole is back. She grew up in poverty, immigrant parents who make minimum wage, it was difficult being in that situation. Not enough food, crappy apartments, unsafe. One of the most traumatic things was the arguments her parents had over money- one of her vivid memories is at 6, her mom saying to her dad, “we have $6 left for groceries for two weeks” and her dad was just silent. Not having good food when they did have food. Every day she fights to build her wealth so that her kids will never experience that. But now she feels like it’s kind of taking an unhealthy turn. YES GIRL. Because she’s unable to spend money without complaining…and her and her husband bicker over money all the time and the kids see it. It’s having an effect on their oldest kid. Oldest kid sees their hesitancy and how much they fight about money. For kid’s birthday and christmas she gets money from the parents and relatives; they do this to teach her how to save because what’s the point of a gift without a lecture, I guess. When they ask her if she wants to buy a toy she says “no, money is for saving, if I spend money it will be little.” Nicole says she is passing on money trauma to her daughter, when her daughter shouldn’t have money scarcity. Ramit asks what’s the worst case scenario with you and Man if money stays as it is? Nicole says divorce super fast. She says it’s like 50% odds of divorce.
Ramit is talking to us. He is explaining to us that this is a red flag 
thank god he’s making this a teachable moment! Ramit says if we want to stay married this moment should be a real eye opener! Divorce is not a joke and neither is throwing it around. It’s as serious as being worried about burning out at work. These are LIFE CHANGING THINGS. They never fix themselves. Once it’s too late it really is too late. So now this whole conversation is more somber. What does Manchale think? Let’s find out!
Man says right when the pandemic started they had boxes and boxes and boxes of stuff in their house. Stuff they’d gathered from people, free stuff people were giving away like food, clothes, household stuff. OMG YOU GUYS. I genuinely thought he was talking about a drive for poor people. Nay nay (Sarian fans, I see y’all), he meant his WEALTHY FAMILY was taking all this free stuff in for themselves because they got scared of the pandemic. They are literally comfortable taking this shit out of the hands of people who could actually use the free stuff. How the fuck do they sleep at night?! Do they not realize that often people post free stuff who could use the money they could sell it for but do it for the greater good? Especially during a fucking emergency? Justifying it as “it was free” is not ok.
Ramit is gobsmacked. Thank fucking god for that, at least. Man says they practically filled their house with freebies. Ramit wants to see some of this free stuff. Nicole wants to clarify!!! This fb group isn’t a charity!!! She says they wouldn’t do that!! It’s community based! Which is obviously different because there can’t possibly be poorer people or heck even middle class people in that community- you know people for whom that free shit would make a huge difference. No, no. Nicole and Man take free things that aren’t being used in order to use them and by doing so they save the environment. I just puked all over myself but don’t worry, it’s biodegradable. Ramit asks if that sounds convincing to her, and she says, “definitely not that last part” and laughs.
Ramit is talking to us: these people are openly lying to me. Some of you really believe the shit you are trying to tell me, he tells us his listeners. THANK YOU RAMIT. He literally just said, “If you’re a millionaire, I’m going to go out on a limb and say you cannot use these free services anymore. You’re taking away items from other people who truly need it.” YES RAMIT. He says libraries are ok, use those, but finite items that would benefit others is NOT FUCKING COOL. Ramit says he asked them to show him their apartment so they’re showing him now.
Ramit goes, “OMG”. Multiple rubbermaid boxes stacked to the ceiling over 6 feet high. Wrapping paper, trash bags up to the ceiling of the basement. Asks what it is. They say kids clothes, decorations for christmas, toys, a “whole bunch of stuff”, diapers. Nicole admits they probably have about 20 times more diapers than most parents because she hoards things “to feel security”. Man interrupts explaining how buying things on sale works like we’re all a bunch of idiots. The problem isn’t sales, guys, lol. Also I am so suspect when people can so clearly articulate why they are doing something shitty. If you understand it you can fucking change it- being able to explain it isn’t admirable. Ramit makes a solid joke about them diapering their great grandchildren.
Ramit is telling us a lot of people talk about being a hoarder. Ramit says he’s not diagnosing but this podcast “fits into” the options of finding a financial advisor or therapist. He’s talking about how some people won’t do therapy or see an advisor. When he made this podcast he wanted to be careful about what he talked about. He thinks there is a step between talking to randoms on social media and talking to a licensed therapist. I’m guessing he’s covering his own ass here actually. Yeah he says he recommended Nicole see a therapist for her hoarding issues. Ramit wants to de-stigmatize asking for help.
Ramit asks Nicole if there are similarities between how she was raised and what she’s doing to her family now. She immediately says absolutely. See? This is what I mean. Sketchy. She says when her sister was born her family didn’t have much money for formula but the store had a sale (limit of 1) but it was 70% off. They’d till hop to buy as much as possible…is this that traumatizing? Lots of people do this, lol, also that was decades ago. Nicole says her hoarding is from the fear that they could run out and the kids could starve. Fear is her greatest motivator but it’s not healthy, she says. BULLSHIT DETECTORS ARE GOING OFF FULL FORCE.
Ramit says, “if that were true” that physical security is her driver, than when Man suggested moving to a nicer safer place wouldn’t you have lept to it? She says, “that’s a good point, but I didn’t”. The idea of spending more on rent was “abhorrent” to her…but stealing free shit from people who need it isn’t? She’s complaining about how bad it would be to pay more for housing. She says personal finance advice says to watch fixed expenses! Ramit ain’t buying it. “The typical personal finance advice does not apply to you anymore.” Preach.
Nicole agrees with Ramit that it’s not a math problem. Ramit’s like, “people who have almost $6 million and make $750k a year spend a lot more on their housing and they should.” Ramit says it’s not a point of pride to live wayyyyy under your budget. He points out they’re only spending 2% of their income on housing…she says she thinks the rule is no more than 30% of income, Ramit agrees. He’s like, do you see mathematically that you could spend 10 times what you do without financial risk? Mancala says he does, Nicole says, “yeah” too. Nicole isn’t pushing back at all, she says all the right things that they could have more flexibility than she’s allowing her family, etc. I think what Nicole wants is pity for how she grew up and a free pass for life to continue to do what she’s doing, because omg so brave.
Ramit is dropping mad wisdom, he’s mentioning their friends and families who I assume disapprove of this gross lifestyle? They affirm this. He says, “when people you love whisper, treat it like a scream,” Ramit says it’s a quote from a book he read and v true. Ramit’s like, are there enough fuckign clues for you? Nicole says, “yes absolutely” but I don’t believe her at all. We’re back to Mancala. What is his rich life? What would he do if Nicole were onboard?
Mikey says spoil Nicole and the kids. He wants to buy a gym membership. Car that works. Go on trips. Ramit is going to hate these non-specific examples. He says, aw, man this is grim. One year he bought Nicole expensive chocolates for Valentine’s Day and she was “livid”. His rich life would be doing that and not being berated or upsetting her. He wants her to feel happy. Ramit says Man’s non-specific rich life dreams are a sign things have gone wrong. I think the fact that his wife is super fucking ungrateful is a bigger issue but ok.
Ramit asks if Nicole has a number she will feel ok at. I don’t think there’s enough money on earth for that but let’s find out! She says they hit that number already, the number she told herself would help her loosen the reigns was $5.7 million. In her mind that was the number because it was a $700k paid off house, and then they’d have a $200k PASSIVE INCOME from what remained invested, which would cover their needs and “a lot of wants”. She figured there’d be no more anxiety after that day! But then the next week she thought, “maybe we need $10 million”. Man says he feels like there’s no point, she can’t enjoy anything. THEY BUY $2,500 investments PER DAY.
Ramit asks if they know how much they will have in 20 years, I love when he does this. The ACCOUNTANT couple doesn’t know. Ramit says conservatively $27 million, in 25 years it will be $40 million. He says it’s more than they can ever spend, but they can’t even spend what they make now on new fucking tires. She says, “that’s very true” but I fucking hate how she says it. Rote. I don’t buy that she wants to change at all. Nicole says what actually matters is realizing they have enough! Yeah, no fucking shit. It’s no wonder she frames this as a problem that stems from a poor upbringing, lol, it’s the only way to make such outstanding greed even semi-palatable. And also it’s a lie but whatever, lol.
Ramit wants to know Nicole’s rich life. They’re super into fitness. She wants new gym outfits, she can’t tell us how many times she adds something to her cart then abandons it. She laughs, so relatable, amirite? She says, “who would spend $200 on a pair of shorts and a sports bra?” not little old her! She’s a regular gal just like us! Except super fucking rich and out of touch with reality! LOL. Ramit asks what she gets out of talking herself out of it. She says she justifies not spending because spending makes her anxious. She says if she spends she will feel like she could lose it all, to square one, with nothing. She says it’s like a dopamine rush to not buy, it almost feels like she got the thing but because she didn’t she “won”.
We’re naming the voice who talks her out of buying stuff. This is insanity. Nancy. Apologies to Mrs. Sinatra. She’s wearing devil’s horns. She’s disheveled. Nancy is the negative vision she has of her childhood. Well the only vision she has is negative so that tracks. Nancy is anti-growth. When Mikeale asked her about tires she says the first thing she thinks about is cost!!! Because she grew up without money!!! Did you know she grew up super poor? Because she’s bringing that up again. This lady is going to be like 70 with a $100 million talking about how tough being poor was and how she’s totes still poor at heart–I have met these people before, trust me.
We’re still talking about Imaginary Nancy. IDK what is happening. Ramit says Nancy wears glasses BUT only one side has a lens. Do we get it? She can only see half of things!!! I just glared at my phone like it was the one condescending to me, sorry phone it’s not ur fault bb. Anyway all Nancy sees is cost. Nicole laughs and agrees Nancy has too much control.
Now we’re creating a positive future-oriented character on her other shoulder. This is cringier than the weekend I spent at Young Life. At least I got felt up there. She can’t think of a name, Polly says her husband. Positive Polly. Negative Nancy and Positive Polly. Polly is wearing designer jeans and a crop top. She says things like go for it, you work really hard, don’t steal from poor people (jk, she didn’t say that one), this will enhance your life. Polly says cost is irrelevant if it brings you true joy. She wears the lenses of Value and Fulfillment. Ramit adds Experience, Speed, Luxury, how many lenses does she have? Nicole says “several”. Infinite, says Ramit. We’re replaying the car conversation but with Polly instead of Nancy. If Ramit pulls out a doll and asks where we were touched, I’m out.
Mike is pretending to ask about the car repair.
*Nicole asks what’s truly wrong with the car. *
*HOLY SHIT, Mike goes, as you know when I was driving our daughter the tire popped off. *
*Nicole is understanding that fixing the car might make it safer. She says “do it”. *
Man says, “thank you,” and sounds dead inside.
Ramit’s like, how do you think me and my wife would talk about that. She says probably they wouldn’t even have that back and forth but would just fix it. Ramit goes, "yeah my wife trusts me and I trust her. "
Ramit is telling us about money rules. We should all have 5-10 money rules in our lives. Oops, lol. Some of Ramit’s are: always have 1 year of e-fund cash; save x amount of income; never question spending on books/appetizers/health/donating to a fundraiser…I’m zoning out. He couldn’t afford appetizers as a kid, which clearly traumatized him because he’s mentioned this like 500 times. Can you even imagine the trauma of your parents being able to treat you to a restaurant meal but asking you to not get an app? He’s talking about his blog, Ramit’s Money Rules articles.
Nicole is listing what they could have as money rules. Man admits he has trouble answering questions because he’s afraid of upsetting Nicole. He wants way more than a $700k house, he wants a fancy perfect house for like $1.5 million. She says she thinks they can work towards envisioning that together, which is a nice way of sounding agreeable without agreeing to anything. They do love those big ass houses, she says, like big yards, kids would like it! Make lifelong memories.
Ramit asks what Nicole thinks Man means when he says he wasn’t honest. She says she thinks he’s trying to not trigger her anxiety by dreaming bigger than she is allowing them to live. He’s trying to please her by dreaming small, says Ramit. She says “yeah” softly. Ramit also points out how absurd it is that Michale has to ask for permission to even fix a stupid car, especially as they are literally multi-millionaires. He sounds very submissive, and like, nervous? Like he’s walking on eggshells every time he answers a question. He can hardly make a statement without a question mark at the end.
Nicole finally agrees they could give away some of the free stuff they got and other people could use it! And it would free up space for them! This chick is odd. She agrees to everything and sounds so onboard but she’s had no revelation at all. Ramit says there are more important things that optimizing. She says “you don’t even know how amazing that is to hear.” I don’t get why we’re not talking about the fact that her supposed entire concern is not repeating her childhood but…she and her husband argue about money all the time. Ramit is trying to nudge them into being generous…this has clearly never occurred to them. We could help people who need it! AND FREE UP OUR TIME AND SPACE. Lol.
Ramit is literally like, are there any ways you could maybe be generous to like, other fucking people? Nicole comes up with paying extra at Starbuck’s so the next person gets a free drink. Ramit is like…ok that’s like $10 a month? I expect more, me too Ramit. She says it’s v important for her to help other new moms 
she says there was an agency that helped them when she was pregnant and got laid off because things were “very tight”. She’s been thinking about donating to them but hasn’t. She thinks maybe they could even donate every month! Maybe even $500 a month! Man agrees. We can all call this a reluctant win…I mean giving $6k a year when you make $750k is…well they’re accountants. She also says maybe the kids could have lessons without agonizing over costs, and she wants beauty treatments and exercise clothes.
Ramit is making her pull up the gym clothes she wants. Her computer isn’t working, she’s laughing, it’s broken because the repair costs $200!!! She’s so funny and charming! Man is also laughing softly in the background. Ramit asks if they see how much friction they’ve created in their lives. Ramit is making her order the clothes. She’s never even been to that screen before!! Hahahahaha, she laughs, she’s never even clicked that button! She feels relieved now. It’s so nice to hear it’s ok to give yourself. She did it. And they didn’t go bankrupt, she laughs!
We’re closing up now. Ramit thinks it was great, a wild ride! I think almost nothing will change with these two.
Done.
