I Will Teach You to Be Rich: Podcast Gossip and Discussion

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Super literal person checking in. I’ve had to learn a bunch that others intuit. You wouldn’t pick up on it so much now, but I’ve got a couple decades of training behind me now. Teenage me who only had a few years worth would absolutely sound like Ramit. My saving grace is probably being designated a girl/ woman that led to better training in social skills and empathy. So I would say it can be learnt, because that was my experience. Ramit’s probably never been expected to learn and is brushed off as “oh, he’s just a Dude.”

Ramit is probably also hitting too many of his own annoyance buttons with the people in debt.

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This was really interesting to read, thank you for taking the time to write that up. I too now know the word allistic!

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Lololol I will be silently yelling this at stubborn people for the rest of my life thank you for this gift!

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All of what you wrote makes sense! Thanks so much for adding insight to the conversation. It brings a lot of clarity and helps me see how he might be interpreting things, and I think you’re right that the guests on the show have huge imaginative deficits too (i.e. being a “shed person” etc). The self is very malleable IMO!

@Economista Yessss, that makes so much sense too.

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So the most interesting part of this episode (John & Lindsey, Part I, # 31) to me occurred right at the end:

John: …I need a clearer picture—here’s what it is, I need a clear picture of our income and our expenses. That’s it. Because if we’re in this together, it’s not my debt, it’s not your debt, it’s our house, it’s our pension, it’s our retirement thing.

At the part I bolded, I thought DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!
And I honestly expected her to be delighted, and start talking numbers.

So I was very surprised when she responded:
Lindsey: [00:58:00] I don’t know what you’re really asking. The mortgage is in my name and I will pay the mortgage for that, and I think that’s a good thing for me. I’m going to keep the mortgage in my name, I will continue to make payments for the house and you not pay for anything there. Should we start negotiating then like if you are doing work around the house, because I’m not paying somebody, like to pay you?

Huh? He finally wants to look at numbers, where they might start coming to a solution, and her response is like, The mortgage is mine, the house is mine, I don’t know what you’re asking. It’s like she wants to keep him in the dark about their money situation. Get out of debt honey, but don’t ask me for any details about our finances.

I’m not sure Ramit completely caught that either, although he may pick it up in part 2. I thought it very odd that earlier, she wanted to take over paying his credit card and perhaps student loan debt “We’re in this together, it’s OUR debt,” but when it comes to the mortgage, suddenly her line was, “It’s MY mortgage and MY house.”

I didn’t really see until I was doing the copy and paste - maybe what she was reacting to was the last part of what he said: “Because if we’re in this together, it’s not my debt, it’s not your debt, it’s our house, it’s our pension, it’s our retirement thing.”

I’m wondering, is she playing a role where she wants to be the rescuer, or she is the responsible one and he is the bad boy?

I agree Ramit is out of his comfort zone here, but I’m enjoying that aspect of the podcast. I’m curious to see how he learns and continues to grow as a result. This line also caught my attention:

“Now, what I want to point out is that both of you have a lot of interesting ideas about money that are very typical of people who are unsophisticated with money. And I want to give you a couple of examples, so you know what I mean. Okay. Now, the good news is you can become sophisticated with money, like it’s actually not that hard, but you know you need to actually put in the time and work in order to do it.”

I feel like that is growth from last week and addresses at least one of last week’s comments - you are not stuck being forever unsophisticated about money.

I also laughed when he talked about the emails. I get emails from all kinds of places because I make purchases, especially online purchases. Does he do any of the actual buying in his household? How does one even avoid all of the emails? Just because I get them - they go in the promotions folder - doesn’t mean I actually READ them.

Anyway, I am looking forward to next week, and would like him to follow up with this couple in a year too.

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I have to say, this whole imagining your rich life thing has made some pretty positive impact in my life! I owe Ramit a thank you if I ever see him IRL.

Summary

I’ve never had the delusion of poverty that some of the callers on the show have but I think it’s true that I never actually imagined my ideal future life. I think being in such literal physical survival mode from such a young age, and having so many dreams cut off instantly made me extremely practical with a lot of life planning. Like when people say young people think they’re invincible and can do anything, lol, I never really got to have that. Reality hit me in the face fast and young, so at a certain point I stopped thinking in a dreamy way at all because I had to grow up, which was a good thing at the time and is partly why I am where I am, but I decided to do his experiment of imaging absolutely everything I’d like to have in the ideal future and it kind of surprised me.

The most surprising thing is that I was really nervous to do it because deep down I thought there was no way it was achievable because I have such expensive tastes. I was also worried it would make me feel like I was losing something else if I looked at what I wanted, because most things I’ve really wanted in life I’ve not been able to have, or I’ve had for a very brief window and then had them ripped away due to just, having the body I have. Hard work or talent has never really mattered that much in my life, because physical ability trumps everything else. And I think that has made me really conservative about dreaming, about anything.

The second thing is that while it’s true that we wouldn’t hit my ideal level of rich life living if we did our current early retirement plan, if we extend things out farther we actually won’t be that far off from it. I talked to husband about everything (he is super hands off with money) and tried to get an idea of what he pictures retirement looking like, and it was actually very similar to mine! He wants to live a much higher lifestyle than I thought he would, which is actually good because that means we’re aligned.

So now we’re basically dedicated to doing what we can to maximize income and investments via strategizing a lot over the next couple of years (re: his career trajectory). He is surprisingly game for trying to go balls out (thanks @ginja_ninja haha, I use that all the time now that I know its origins) in order to make more money, which wasn’t his position earlier in life. I think some of what I learned is that I need to do more frequent check-ins about this kind of fluffy stuff because we got together so young that a lot of things he used to think/feel have changed. His perspective used to be that he wanted to retire as young as possible, even if that meant living in a tiny apartment on a low budget forever. I was fine with that since I kind of have to follow his lead in this area, but that has changed a lot.

Long story short, our FIRE number has increased quite a bit! I’m feeling good about it, though.

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Ooh I liked reading this. I have thoughts too, I want some more time to think them through and do some writing on my own about it first

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That is wonderful @AllHat!

I agree that thinking about my rich life, though I’ve not thought about it in the detail that you did, is motivating me to make some changes.

Summary

I related to some of the episodes where the guy with $8MM was still price shopping for blueberries.
And FTR, I won’t pay $15 for a pint either! I won’t even pay the $7 that Whole Foods was selling them for! Why? When you can get them on sale for $1.50 - $2.00 per pint, freeze them, and put them in yogurt over time?
Anyway, I digress.

While I’m nowhere close to $8MM, my current withdrawal rate is below 4%.
Previously I thought I should stay with teaching yoga, and have at least some income, coming in. But you know what? Right now, my rich life does not involve teaching yoga. So I gave notice and taught my last class this week.

I’ve wanted to downsize for years - I think I was writing about it on MMM in 2015. But it doesn’t make economic sense - it’s more economically optimum to stay here. Rents are high, and buying a place that is half the space of mine is 80% of the cost, or higher. So I’ve stayed.

But - my rich life involves living in a smaller place where I don’t have to do lawn and yard care, have less to clean, live in a townhouse or apartment. So in the next couple of weeks I’m going to a LCOL where a friend lives, where winters are not so harsh (February has been rough) to look at selling my place, and renting for 6 months to a year while I consider my next steps. At a minimum, I’ll spend the winter there if I go. And be riding my bike in February instead of waiting for the snow to melt and the temperature to warm up.

Today, a friend and I went to look at some open houses, because I want to get a better sense of what might be possible staying here, where I already have friends and would not be starting completely over. I think the housing prices are exorbitant, and it’s extremely competitive, but maybe it’s not as impossible as I’ve thought to sell this place and buy something better suited to who I am now. Maybe I can still live my rich life, even if it’s not the most economical option on paper, because I WANT TO.

Like many here I need to replace some clothing, especially biking gear. I went and bought things. In some cases I found stuff on sale, and in others I paid full price, without the drama of trying to comparison shop. I like, it fits, it’s in stock at my local bike shop, done.

I went to see my friend over Christmas. I bought an airline ticket a week before Christmas. My previous self would never have done that. I had a great time and don’t regret it a bit.

I could probably have done this upcoming trip a bit cheaper if I’d waited so I could buy my ticket further in advance and get better deals. But I’m going anyway. On my way back, I’m taking the shuttle the evening before, getting a hotel room and staying the night, instead of catching the shuttle at 2 am. I will sleep the night before, and be well-rested enjoy the rest of the day instead of being an incoherent zombie.

Because he’s right. Am I even going to miss that $120 for the hotel room, or the dollars for the full price shoes and bike jersey 5 or 10 years for now? No, unless things go very wrong, I am not.

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I love hearing about how you’re taking spontaneous trips and being willing to spend to make your travel more comfortable! I’m only halfway there, but maybe I’ll get there :slight_smile:

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That’s so great!! I think Ramit has made an impact on a lot of people here… when we do things we’re now like “this is my Rich Life” and at least for me I’ve been able to let go of some overthinking and guilt.

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I love this so much. Due to anxiety I tend to dwell on the worst what ifs possible instead of imagining the good things that could happen or daydream about my ideal future (once, a therapist asked me if I only worry, or if I ever let myself daydream. It was eye opening). And, like you, I have some fear around even thinking about best case scenarios because “of course it won’t happen!” Which is not true and doesn’t allow me to have honest conversations with my life partner or put plans into place. I’m grateful for the way Ramit’s goofy show has inspired me to be honest with myself and fiancé about what I desire.

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Listening to the latest episode now.

My live reactions

I have to say, I have a lot more empathy for Ramit now that I understand some of the reasons he speaks and approaches things the way he does. I think people here were totally correct about him, like in this episode he actually pauses to explain to the listener that when speaking to someone, you should make sure you use examples that the person relates to and can understand. In previous listens I’d be like, um duh (kind of an asshole reaction, I now realize)? But now I’m like, ohhhh ok this is something he had to discover and learn because it wasn’t intuitive to him. Got it!

I’m only halfway through the episode but man oh man, this husband is like, super in need of some something. He is VERY sensitive and reactionary about every little phrasing of each thing and so terrified of “being a burden”, which yeah no one wants to be a burden, but something really intense is going on with this guy. I continue to be baffled by marrieds who attempt to keep everything separate, and I thought by saying she’d help pay off his debt the wife was more in the let’s combine things camp. But when Ramit brought that up, her immediate reaction was that it would “scare” her to have everything in one pot. I feel like that means she totally doesn’t trust her husband, I mean, why on earth would it be scary? And why would you ever agree to marry someone who you don’t even trust with money? I think that’s the hardest thing for me to wrap my mind around!

Back to listening!

Oh lordy, the example Ramit’s using to elucidate being a burden is someone who loses their arm. Ramiiiiiit, lol, whyyyyy. He thinks in that instance he’d temporarily feel like a burden and then be ok with it :laughing: I think he might be underestimating the experience just a tad! Also, I’m sorry but losing your arm is not the same as choosing to go into debt, but I digress. In any case I get the point he’s trying to make, onwards!

Woah the husband is super resentful about paying child support. He clearly feels like it’s a huge BURDEN. And that’s probably why he doesn’t want to be a burden. I don’t know enough about how child support works to know if it’s an a-hole way to feel, thoughts/opinions? Like, wouldn’t his ex not get child support unless it was financially necessary, or is that not the case?

Also, it’s weird how he talks about stuff like everything just happens to him. I’m not trying to imply there is terrible failure in divorce or anything, but I think if you do get divorced it’s like…very very very rarely all on one person, assuming you chose the person you married. Wherever you go there you are, and the rage he seems to turn on his current wife when she says any little thing that hurts his ego is like…uh, maybe part of the problem? But I feel like in his mind his ex wife was the problem, and she caused the divorce, and now she is causing him to pay child support.

I think prospects for this couple are bleak, in terms of finances but also staying married. I’m so curious what her thinking was in marrying someone who seems to have no clarity on why his last relationship ended. Like, that seems pretty major to me! One thing that really checked a box for me when I met my husband was how he talked about exes, including an ex who cheated on him. It wasn’t like he had zero bitterness, but the very first time he told me about it he was like, “yeah it was super fucked up because she cheated with my best friend,” BUT, then he went on to explain how he’d been an emotionally absent boyfriend and he even said he felt like it was half on him that she cheated, because a relationship takes two and he was so checked out. That’s the kind of clarity I want this guy on the podcast to have, but he is just filled with poor me I have a crazy ex. But like…you chose to date her dude, and then you got engaged, and then you married her, and then you had multiple kids with her, and then you got divorced…she didn’t do all that on her own, lol.

Oh man, the wife sent Ramit an email follow-up. She seems to be taking on a disproportionate amount of responsibility for the negativity in the conversation. She and her husband are now reading Ramit’s book together and having weekly meetings, but man, I feel for these two. I feel like they aren’t going to make it unless the husband has some seriously epic revelations in the realm of personal responsibility.

End of live react, lol, these are super fun to write when I’m on pain meds, haha.

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Child support here, based on my understanding of Ponder’s experience as a child of divorced parents, is a mix of who earns more and who has more custody time.

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I agree with this. If I didn’t completely trust the other person with money I wouldn’t marry them! I don’t know if my point of view is different though because I married someone who was already disabled and who didn’t have income outside of SSDI? We knew that I would always make more and carry the responsibility for funding our necessities, and his “income” would be savings and nice to haves. I also paid off all of his debt when we got married. But my student loans are a lot more than his credit card debt was.

When I was listening to this episode I was taken aback by how strongly Ramit was against having her help him pay off his debt. To me it just makes sense that you live together and are married and have shared expenses so therefore your family has $X coming in and $Y bills to pay and the debt payments are just a family bill. :woman_shrugging: I feel like it is kind of immature to be so nitpicky about “your bills” vs “my bills” and “your income is only X while mine is Y”. As we say in my house, we each have our own strengths and weaknesses and one of my strengths is making the money we need. That isn’t his strength, which is why we are partners and each of our strengths make up for each other’s deficits.

This. The fact that he pay so much in child support means that he either makes a LOT more than his ex, or he has the children a LOT less. In my case, when my mom had full custody of me and my brother my dad had to pay my mom $800 per month. Then he got full custody and the visitation switched to living with him mostly and seeing our mom every other weekend. My mom only had to pay $50 per month.

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Exactly!

Summary

I’m always curious how couples who keep things artificially separate would deal (emotionally and logistical) with one person becoming permanently disabled. It’s fundamentally bizarre to me to do things in such a separate way for that reason but also because we aren’t roommates or co-workers. Like, should dh pay me for the meals I cook? If he didn’t have me he’d have to pay a restaurant, should I get restaurant rates? What about laundry service costs since I do that? How much do I owe dh for caring for me after surgeries? If I’d had to hire an aide that would have been super expensive. Should I pay him for giving me rides places too?

Keeping score in a marriage seems bonkers to me. I think it’s partly that mentality that’s leading the husband in this episode to feel like he’s a burden, and if his new wife ever requires more financially then she can give I think he’ll feel like she’s a burden, which is a scary thought! Like, where does generosity come in? I think ideally a marriage should grow your generosity muscle and your gracious accepting muscles, and it’s like they are robbing themselves of the chance for that. We’re friends with a married couple who is so far that way that when we go to dinner one of them will talk about having to venmo the other for the cost of their meal, and often they’ll add in other things like, “well I paid for groceries this week but you paid for the lyft here so I’ll send you x amount,” and I’m like…I can’t believe that’s preferable to you!!!

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I know many couples who don’t have totally combined finances for several reasons, and it totally works for them, but they’re mostly on the lines of “yours/mine/ours”, not “yours/mine” and lots of shuffling back & forth. I’ve seen “yours/mine” work for couples who are early in their relationship (whatever early means for them, a few months to a few years). And yes, mostly I see couples being generous with each other “I’ll pick up this one! That ones on me!” Rather than keeping close score. Much like how I think about the finances of my extended family works.

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I know lots of yours/mine/ours too! In my social sphere that’s the most common way for sure, like I’d say there’s major judgment in the other direction (towards people who fully combine), which I totally get too but it’s interesting. And I do see them being generous with each other and offering to pay for one another and trading off on treating one another, etc. They’re not all nickel and dimers, that’s just one extreme case for sure, and I’m sure they feel very generous as well!

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I know people who do separate accounts because of trauma from a bad divorce or seeing money trouble with their parents. My friend advised me to do separate accounts when I got married (we didn’t). She married an asshole. None of the friends liked him, but we tolerated him for her sake. He was nice to her until he wasn’t, and it was a terrible divorce. I was in my early 20’s, fresh out of college and pretty naive, and she was a decade older when they got engaged, so I really wasn’t in a place to say anything to her about their relationship!

Also, regarding the wife having chosen to marry that guy, so many people make bad decisions and ignore red flags! To use Ramit’s phrase, I think lots of people are unsophisticated about relationships.

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I am giggling over “people are unsophisticated about X” today. I’m just gonna apply it to everything and collapse in fits of giggles.

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I feel like if I keep saying it, the word is going to lose meaning! It really trips up the tongue :joy:

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