I Will Teach You to Be Rich: Podcast Gossip and Discussion

Pop Culture + Media
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I’m listening to this week’s episode (#31). I’m not quite halfway through and already have 2 things to complain about. The guy has $33k of credit card debt and $95k of student loan debt. Ramit asks him if he has a plan to pay it off and he says he has 2-3 years left for PSLF on the student loans. Then Ramit comes back and says he has over $100k in debt and no plan to pay it off. That isn’t true. He doesn’t have a plan for the cc debt, but he does have a plan for the student loans. I guess it just isn’t a plan Ramit likes?

Now he’s on a rant about Target and that spending money at Target “can’t be your rich life” and that the wife should have said she would buy the necessities at Target and then buy herself a massage. I get his point that a lot of people waste money at Target and buy stupid stuff they don’t need, but that doesn’t mean Target can’t be your rich life! Plus, in this case, the wife wants to help pay down her husband’s debt and so maybe she shouldn’t waste $100 on a massage and should buy a bottle of bubble bath or something at Target instead for $10. For me, my rich life 100% involves indulgent personal care things like taking a hot bath with oils or bubbles.

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I listened to it too, and was thinking about posting a disclaimer that if this podcast was starting to make you mad, not to listen to this one! This was even worse than the last one, honestly. It sounded like Ramit doesn’t understand how PSLF works?

I also thought the Target thing was weird (verging into sexism, with how he framed it?!). For sure, if I were a hyper frugal person, I shouldn’t have bought two $5 Christmas mugs at Target, but decorating for the holidays is part of my rich life. Mindless spending isn’t good anywhere! It makes more sense to recommend that she just make Target purchases online (to prevent impulse buys), or review past receipts for things she doesn’t need, or whatever.

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I really like Ramit’s book and I usually have been giving it as gifts to some of my mentees and people when they ask me for financial advice. Glad to see this topic on here and have a good time reading it!

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I haven’t listened to his latest episode but he’s also ranted about Target before! In a different episode and he was mystified about why people like Target and then mentioned that he was shocked his own wife likes Target, or something? I mean I’m not a big Target person but I get it…it’s just an affordable department store that sells some food, lol.

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Exactly. I like it because it’s a one-stop shop. I can get groceries, diapers, baby cream, shampoo, etc all at one time. I don’t have time to go to multiple stores and I end up getting 5% off my groceries since I have the credit card …oops, I must be unsophisticated with money since I have a store card! That must be why I like Target - I’m an unsophisticated person :laughing:

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Bahahaha! Same here!

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It is definitely a difference that the USA has “store cards” that are actual credit cards! Here that would mean a loyalty card that you swipe after paying that gets you some points towards free stuff, or small discounts, rather than an actual credit card you can owe money on.

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Oh, we have those too.

Why not have ALL the cards…

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It’s almost like he isn’t the person in his household who has to buy cleaning supplies, groceries, make sure everyone is dressed appropriately, decorated for the holidays… :joy:

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Ha! I was just telling Ry about this episode while we eat lunch and I mentioned my bubble bath theory. Now B is begging for a bubble bath and asking for “me hot bath bubble bath PLEASE.” I think her rich life definitely includes a bubble bath :laughing:

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Listening now, wow…he really hates target, lmao. I wonder if he’d have the same reaction to Sephora? I feel like I use Sephora the way a lot of people with less disposable income and time use Target (i.e. browsing and picking up odds and ends, trying new things, etc.) but would it be ok with him because the things I buy are more “designer”? I’m curious!

I do understand what he’s trying to get at, which I think is, “Don’t use mindless consumerism as a placeholder for achieving your bigger life goals,” which I agree with! But he doesn’t say it very well. It’s like when someone says they desperately want to get out of debt but they need their starbucks, and manicures, and target runs, and delivery food…but in reality their true dream is buying a house with a lot of land or something.

I also don’t understand his stance on a spouse not paying off the other spouse’s debt. Is he totally against combining finances or something? I paid off my husband’s loans when we got together, didn’t even think twice about it (granted it wasn’t $100k, but still), and obviously he pays for my entire life now, so…IDK? Odd stance! It’s also weird that he never mentions the guy’s obvious script that his issues are only his and basically shouldn’t affect his wife…which is such a common dynamic that IMO stems from some light sexism. Because the wife is telling him it affects her, and his response is basically, “this is just my problem”. Ramit doesn’t seem to pick up on that or think his view on that is an issue though, and in fact reiterates that the guy should take care of his own debt himself. Interesting!

Random theory

Here’s a random thing that occurred to me, because I used to work with a lot of left-brain people, especially men. I wonder if some of Ramit’s “out of touch” vibes are actually because he has a super limited imagination? I think people with limited imaginations probably have a harder time picturing having different values, being super open minded, etc. Like I think thought experiments can be harder for them to engage with, from experience in meetings. Hypotheticals and examples are often not taken as such, and are taken super literally. Sarcasm and hyperbole too, often goes way above their heads, like the “target is my casino”… I don’t think she was being that literal, she was using humor to break the tension of a difficult conversation for her, and to divert away from the guilt she probably was feeling.

I started thinking about this because, for example, Target does nothing for me personally. BUT, I can imagine that if I were a super busy mom, and I had to go to a store to get lots of kid/household/grocery stuff anyway (like Economista mentioned) I’d definitely swing by the cute makeup department at Target! And maybe I’d go by housewares for a nice throw pillow, pick up some pajamas or yoga pants since I need those too, etc. It’s not like, completely impossible for me to picture, lol. But I think for him it might be? Like he couldn’t even conceive of using a shed. I’ve lived my entire adult life in big cities too. I lived in NYC too. I’ve never owned a shed! But I can imagine you might store things like: a lawnmower, snow shovels, gardening things, skis, woodworking stuff, kid’s bikes, etc. It’s not like, beyond my understanding just because I don’t personally have that life. He also couldn’t understand the RV thing at all, which yeah I don’t want an RV, but I can imagine why some people (who have big families, moderate income, live in driving distance to lots of outdoors stuff, have friends who also have RVs and like to camp, etc.) might love an RV trip! Sounds super fun if you’re that type! And I get why a lot of people would hate going to the types of restaurants I enjoy, they’re stuffy, there are lots of unwritten rules, it’s expensive, sometimes you’re not sure what you’re ordering, you have to dress up, etc. I love it, but I totally get why someone might prefer a casual dining experience! He seems to be quite limited in that area, which could also explain why he couldn’t even conceive of why some women who grew up watching their mothers/other women close to them get abandoned by their spouses and become poor instantly might be worried about that happening to them. He couldn’t wrap his head around it maybe because he literally can’t even picture not being who he is.

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Haha, as usual you have a great analysis.

He totally has a limited imagination and honestly, I think he probably had to learn how to go through the motions of being empathetic (would not be surprised if he’s on the spectrum). I suspect the whole reason he’s so into rules is that he had to make a whole lot of them for himself to better navigate life. And he’s very black and white about a lot of things.

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I am unsophisticated with money, female, and could not care less about Target. I shop there because it’s close to my workplace to pick up things from the grocery section, cleaning supplies, etc. And because if you know what products to look for they have a lot of things that are even cheaper (per ounce/effectiveness of product) than Dollar Tree.

I think my personal Target is actually my CVS conveniently two blocks away. It’s those ****ing extra bucks rewards.

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The spice store is probably my Target, haha, put like that! Like I walk in for paprika or dill and I walk out in a daze with four full bags like “what just happened?! where am I? what is Peruvian lime blend?”

Spoiler: Peruvian lime blend is delicious…ask me how I know.

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Same. I walk in for toothpaste and walk out with several bottles of kombucha, Ben & Jerry’s, and for some reason a Milani blush even though I wear blush exactly 2 days per calendar year.

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These two points make a lot of sense,

Summary

(can’t/won’t speak to a diagnosis of course) but he’s also very repetitive (word for word) about emotional/privilege observations, which seems like a common feature in left-brain STEM types who are trying to be empathetic. I also encounter this dealing with medical professionals a lot, very in the box thinking, black and white, carbon copy quotations about empathy without actual display of consideration, or even while being actively inconsiderate, etc.

It might also explain his fascination with super basic psychology? Like in one episode he interrupted a couple (I think the truck and debt couple) and said something like, “do you realize that you are actually a product of the way you grew up?” and the woman is like…“well, yeah, of course” and then Ramit was like, “Seriously. YOU ARE A PRODUCT of the people and places around you. You are conditioned to xyz, because when you saw your mom doing x you did z…” like he went on and on as if it were a really novel observation, but did so without any real empathy to the person he was talking at. So maybe he really does struggle with basic people/emotional skills, which obviously isn’t his fault, but it’s interesting and I want to keep it in mind to see if that holds true through other episodes. It might shift how I think about him a bit (in a positive way) because it might literally be beyond his capacity.

I think the guy in the latest episode was a good example too, like when he said he basically didn’t think he was smart enough to figure out finances because he was just an Earth Science teacher…sure maybe that’s an excuse (which is what Ramit said, it was “innocent Doe” in his eyes), but also a lot of people feel like that. I felt like that despite also feeling like a smart person because I was always much worse at math than language oriented stuff, which I excelled at.

When I first got on MMM at age 23 with no understanding of what a 401(k) was or how interest worked, I can’t remember who it was, but some engineer type was like, so kind and reassuring to me and basically said I could do it because it was all basic math and that even if I couldn’t do basic math he could help me with it or show me calculators online. He literally walked me through the most basic math you can imagine, step by step, and then I got it! I had thought personal finance was like, IDK, calculus or some shit. I didn’t realize how much I could figure out just using multiplication and online calculators and stuff. It was a HUGE relief!

But probably that’s too outside Ramit’s experiences to consider, and I don’t think he picks up on emotions at all so he can’t really read between the lines. He doesn’t notice when he’s upsetting people and also doesn’t address direct questions, like when they directly asked him for financial advice he explained why that wasn’t the correct approach and why he wasn’t doing that. I think he just sort of sticker-style applies labels (innocent doe, rich life, unsophisticated with money, etc.) to try and make sense of what people are doing, and I think it’s hard to do that and simultaneously listen and observe.

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Yep, which makes him extra unqualified to be helping these people! He’s got a whole system for helping rich people to focus on their values when spending their money (and I think his book has strategies to save/optimize money when you’re not yet rich), but he has no system for helping people get out of major debt.

All the warm fuzzies about the person on MMM who helped you with get more confident about finances :heart:

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Hahahahahah this made me laugh. I’m autistic and feel this hardcore.

Summary

I’ve been in therapy for a year literally rehashing the nuances between thoughts, emotions, and moods. I “get” the scientific construct that leads psychological professions to use these models, but I also literally cannot understand it cognitively, spiritually, philosophically, what have you… It can be very difficult to brush over loaded conversations/assumptions without picking them to death.

I think it’s a problem where autistic people tend to like to explain their exact cognitive process, conversationally, like I had thought A then B then C and then I felt this emotion. When I personally, autistically, hear other people say “I need a shed” “I need an RV” it’s kind of a sticking point where I can’t continue a conversation until I hear them explain their exact thoughts leading them to these conclusions they’re stating. Because a lot of people seem to not acknowledge or know that they just simply WANT a shed or an RV (again, maybe a problem of literalness here that I simply cannot get around cognitively) and then it kind of gets hard to tell the difference between person A who literally is not self aware that life and death doesn’t hinge on a shed, or person B who really, really wants a shed and gets offended that I’m insinuating they’re not intelligent because of course they know it’s not essential (although their actual words indicate otherwise).

See also: “holding space” makes no sense because people are using it as if there’s a common meaning within this phrase that all people could agree on and understand, when in actuality if 100 people had to write a sentence expanding on this concept, that would be 100 distinct definitions.

I think there’s a disconnect between autistic people and allistic people when identity issues come up because autistic people usually mask and usually have to greatly go against their own brains when existing in the world. So when an allistic person clings tightly to their identity, an autistic person doesn’t understand why they don’t just, consider that their identity is more flexible than they’ll acknowledge. Yes, Shed Guy thinks sheds are important but they also literally just aren’t and you could simply choose to suppress your desires and be Not a Shed Guy. Or, if Shed Guy wants a shed, I need to hear a concise 500 word story from the deepest parts of his mind explaining the Shed Drive.

Lol does any of this make any sense?

I totally think Ramit is annoying but also totally think he’s not that bad haha. I also think the cogntive abilities thing cuts both ways. Ramit has imaginative deficits but is also desperately trying to get his guests to acknowledge their own imaginative deficits.

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Thanks so much for sharing, I found your thought processes really interesting! And I didn’t know the word “allistic”, and now I do :slight_smile:

This is such a great way of putting it!

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This analysis also reminded me that he mentioned once that he made a big complicated spreadsheet with their finances, showed it to his wife, and it went over her head and she didn’t get it. So now he think spreadsheets don’t ever work and he seems to be completely against drilling deep into the numbers, opting for talking about how people feel about money instead. In reality, you need both and I think that’s where he’s really failing some of these people who really need to take a deep look at every penny they are spending to see where they can make cuts and pay off their debt. Yeah, it’s nice to think about how great it would feel to be out of debt and go on a vacation, but you won’t get there without looking at the numbers.

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