When do you relax around finances? And what's too much?

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Such an interesting discussion!

We have just way reduced our income as an alternative to paid child care (which would have been super expensive anyway) so I an actually tightening up around finances!

See. in YNAB our age of money has been going down and down and we are always in the red until the end of the month. So I’m being more deliberate about actually “budgeting” as opposed to just tracking spending.

And because I only work 2 days and a week and every other Saturday, I’m trying harder to source things cheaper. The Boy is the grocery shopper but I am the “quartermaster.” Baby is eating a lot of Buy Nothing baby food. I drove to Costco to get the cheap formula. I even got a Keurig from Buy Nothing. (Switching to pod coffee = not a frugal move but it frees up like 10 minutes of precious nap time over fussing with the French press.)

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23

I never relax when it comes to finances, but I don’t stress about it, either.

Personal finances is like a nuclear reactor. It requires constant monitoring. If you maintain constant vigilance, do proper maintenance, and work to fix problems quickly while they’re small, it all hums along rather smoothly. Once you start to neglect it, however, the results can be catastrophic.

As long as we’re working toward our goals and staying true to our values, we don’t stress over money. But we’ve built the appropriate safety nets over time to make this a reality, and we constantly monitor everything. And we don’t try to squeeze every penny out of every transaction/situation possible. That would be stressful.

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24

I have relaxed a lot recently. I had a 4.5 year plan related to my job with a fixed end date. So during that time I did detailed expense tracking and fairly die-hard saving. I have always prioritized keeping fixed costs (mostly rent) as low as I could and allowed a bit more splurging on things like travel.

After I reached 100k, which almost coincided with the end of the job, I loosened up a bit and spent more on e.g. getting 10 passes for a proper bouldering gym rather than sticking to the uni gym only. During COVID I also got into a coffee-walk habit with a work friend for mental health and sunlight reasons (winter here means daylight between 9.30AM and 4PM only, so even without COVID that’s depressing) which was compensated by lack of restaurant expenses at first but not once we kept the habit after everything re-opening.

After the job ending, I did a BIG trip which was backpacker budget but much less strict of a budget than a similar trip I did 6 years ago.

So basically, for me reaching my goals ahead of time, and also reaching that 100k made me relax quite a bit. I’m currently job searching and once I got my next step figured out will probably make a new plan with a new savings goal.

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25

When did I relax? After the house was paid off. It felt like an albatross that was never going to go away, and was a goal to have done for many years. I had scraped and put extra against it whenever I could. I slowed down extra payments during Covid because SO’s job was uncertain, and shifted the funds to savings.

Getting higher paid employment also significantly help the relax/calm down part. For me it was a huge high when I paid my previous car off early, and then focussed on maxing out all savings avenues, putting a bit aside for vacation/fun, and extra for the house. With more increases I have been able to save more and not feel deprived keeping my pay day amount the same or close to it.

Auto savings helps, because if I don’t see it I can’t spend it. I have loosened up a bit but have not reduced the biweekly savings amount. If there is extra left in my checking account before the next pay it gets reallocated into another account.

Tightening up when needed - we put everything on the credit card, and when I see a higher monthly balance (we pay it off every month) that is the priority and then less fun money gets set aside. I’m really focussing on need over want when we are shopping, but if I want something at the grocery store I don’t say no. I track spending to see where we are at, but I think we are pretty good about deal finding in general that it is not a problem.

We don’t really deny ourselves anything, but we always make sure we have the funds for it. Have I skipped a week of savings to offset travel? Sure. But then I get right back on after the fun. One or 2 weeks of missed savings is not going to change things at the end.

I’m trying to get better with the concept that I can’t take it with me when I die, but have fun, and make sure I can still support myself later in life. It is a balancing act.

I recognize we are in a very privileged position at this point in our lives.

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26

Love hearing the diversity of stories and approaches here! It is pretty neat to see how we have loosened and tightened depending on personal situation.

I am in the maybe sorta have a big goal phase of life (maybe an expensive house, FI eventually) + extremely strapped for energy and time. Makes sense that I would loosen a little out of overwhelm, necessity, and a far off goal.

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27

I think I worried about money in the back of my head my whole life. It all changed maybe 4-5 years back when we hit our “barebones FI” number (ironically, we are back around that number if you include our mortgage but now have significantly more equity in the house due to a major basement renovation, but it’s money we can’t touch). The cFIREsim calculator helped a lot. And deciding not to have kids. It showed that if we both lost our jobs (a very real possibility at the time) that we were very likely going to be ok. For the first time I just stopped worrying about money and worst case scenarios, and it was so freeing, like this weight that had been there my whole life was gone.

From there I started giving myself permission to spend more. It’s been small steps. I used to go to nice restaurants and see what was a less expensive menu item but my husband convinced me that I should just order what I want, and also get appetizers and dessert if I feel like it. It’s weird because I am still very careful with my money in some ways but I am extravagant in others (house renovation and piano). It has taken an active effort to change my frugal habits.

It has also made a huge difference seeing how much the stock market fluctuates. My day-to-day spending doesn’t matter at all compared to that! A couple of years ago we were so close to our target FI number and now we’re quite a bit down again. I fully trust that our investments will grow in the long run and it’ll get back there.

Until just a couple of years ago I was flipping winter coats. I was usually able to find a few really nice winter coats that retail for $500 for around $75 at the end of the season, and if I sold them for $200-250 the next season I’d net at least $100. It was a major turning point for me to get to the point where I could tell myself that it’s not worth doing it anymore, that I’m secure enough that I can pass up an opportunity to make $100+ with pretty low effort. (Not zero effort and I still have to store and list the coats, and there’s a risk that I’d have a problem buyer.)

I think what affected me the most was discovering MMM and cFIREsim and being able to use calculators to feel secure. I was going to work until I was 60, because that’s what people do! It had never occurred to me that we might soon have enough to sustain a pretty rich life.

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28

In my 20s and early 30s I was pretty restrictive with spending. This was motivated by goals of financial flexibility (not strictly FIRE, maybe more FU money so I would never feel trapped by a terrible job). For about 3 years midcareer I took a 75% pay cut to work at a nonprofit passion project. I was spending ~20% more than I earned for this period, funded via savings, and being mindful of every dollar.

With the privilege of being able to choose, I’ve personally found it easier to be frugal on fewer, bigger decisions (housing, car) and more lax on everyday expenses (groceries, coffee, etc.). For many years, Spouse was great at making simple things feel fancy: candlelit rice-and-beans dinners, picnic dates, homemade cards and baked goods for celebrations. There are some tendencies towards minimal consumption that I have for reasons beyond money, like enjoying camping and road trips over resorts, so I also find those “easier” to spend less on.

We reached FI a couple of years ago, got busier (career, toddler, extended family obligations, volunteering), and developed some minor health problems. For the past couple of years I’ve prioritized time and health. Sometimes that means opting out of buying something entirely so I don’t have to comparison shop, clean, and store an object. Other times that means buying 3 pairs of supportive shoes at full price and returning the 2 that don’t work.

For now, our MO is picking certain categories of minimal spend. We spend the bare minimum on kid toys, travel, entertainment, and household goods for now. We are spending freely for health (PT, immunity supplements, pregnancy support), quality childcare, and time (cleaners etc.). There’s also a house renovation going on that we saved for in cash over the past 6 years, so we’re also indulging on parts of that where it makes sense.

Even with plenty, I wouldn’t say I’m fully relaxed about money. I worry sometimes about losing touch with frugality muscles. I worry even more about making sure my kid has a healthy mindset and skills for managing money and isn’t a spoiled rich asshole. I’m still running expenses through YNAB, checking in on spend-to-savings ratios monthly, and overall portfolio 2-3 times a year. I tend to see managing money like a garden: if I tend to it a bit at a time it’s pretty doable, but if I let things go haywire for a couple seasons or years it’s a lot harder to regain control.

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29

I agree this is the easiest method - opera tickets are more fun and feel more luxe than owning a car but also cost less!

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30

Love this analogy,

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31

This resonates with me. I will try to come back to share more later when I have the time. Even though I feel I don’t have frugality in my nature as l’ve been reading about it for years, and never successfully implemented it, I spent a lot of time repairing broken shit that couldnt ever be made whole (aka still garbage even with a patch on it) and grabbing stuff from trash piles on the sidewalk. Now that I’m in a line of work I feel comfortable in with a very straightforward payscale that increases every year, I’ve reevaluated my orientation toward the money wisdom I try to research. It’s literally only just occurred to me (I’m so resistant to change it is literally tragic) that it is in fact, NOT beneficial to be unaware of what things cost. Even a year ago, I definitely never aspired to always for the rest of my life, only have free furniture. The recent instability of a global pandemic and the mild but noticeable inflation we’re seeing really hit home that I absolutely MUST increase my income. I need to pay attemtion to what goods cost sp I stay in touch with reality, as nice as an awesome Buy Nothing score can be. Even my current job probably won’t pay out satisfactorily forever, and with some gumption I should be ready to switch careers to something lucrative 15 years from now.

I think “you can’t outearn a spending problem” is an excellent mantra for those who have a median or higher income, but for those under 40k is misleading and better off discarded. Like, by all means, addressing my overspending areas is a critical job I’m still actively managing mentally, but earning more is absolutely the imperative as a current low earner.

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32

This is another reason I haven’t used Buy Nothing in a long time. The free thing I find is very rarely going to be exactly the thing I need it to be, and I often find placeholder things I’m desperate to upgrade as soon as I have the money to spend.

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33

I get an on the lower side per diem, but the psychological reward of pocketing a per diem is without compare LOL, possibly my favorite game ever. Last week I brought all my food on a trip and earned $75

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34

So so true and this is the sign of true wealth for me: being able to buy the right thing instead of just the cheapest/free option

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35

We are in a caring-heavy time of our lives with young kids and occasional periods of elder care. We saved up to a goal for our house improvements, and are pretty much coasting for the next 2 years while I build my business and we try for a final child. I did cut the frequency of the cleaners when they tipped into being a bit too expensive for me right now, but otherwise I am just fretting about food spending once a month and accepting the costs of everything besides that. It would cost us too much in other ways to spend less right now. But we can do that because our household income is easily greater than our comfortable spending level.

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36

Yes! Last year when I needed to update my work wardrobe, it was the first time I let myself buy full price clothing and it was so freeing to try and figure out what my personal style was. In the past all of my clothing was just whatever was on the clearance rack or what I found at goodwill or in the buy nothing bins. I had honestly never bought something in a store that wasn’t on the clearance rack before.

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37

I agree on the wonderful feeling of getting exactly what you want rather than something that is cheap and “fine”.

I agree on this count, too. I think when you’re lower income being frugal can save you from debt and total destruction, but it’s difficult and everything hinges on things working out reasonably well. When you have a higher income it’s all so much easier because there’s a ton of wiggle room, and then your frugality muscles start to result in wealth building rather than getting by.

There are also so many ways I save money because I have more money now. For example, I buy really high quality things in the areas I know a lot about. I replace stuff far less often than when I was going the cheap/free route. I can buy in bulk when there are deals on things. I’ve always liked end of season sales for clothing because of my retail background, but now I have the money to fully take advantage. Money makes it much easier to be “frugal” in certain areas and it turns it more into a fun game with lots of choices and trade offs, rather than a harrowing tightrope walk that extends endlessly into the future.

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38

This is so true. The ability to splurge sometimes (or make a mistake and not be totally screwed) make being frugal so much more relaxing and therefore rewarding and therefore sustainable!

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39

Totally! I think it’s kind of like optional discomfort that people engage in. The optionality totally changes the experience because you still have all the power (and none of the stress) and you can opt out anytime you want. It’s like how camping and “roughing it” can be fun, but living in a tent because you cannot afford permanent shelter is not fun; the two experiences have no overlap.

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40

Oh god such a great example. And yet so often the privileged people who have never been without insist on saying, “BUT IT’S SO FUN TO CAMP,” in your face. Or on MMM. Or whatever.

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41

Totally agree with you, love your comment.

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