Transgender women athletes?

When we’re having this debate about trans folks in the 10-18 year old range, that’s the age range at which biological advantages from hormones are ALL over the map, even within the gender binary. Some people have negligible or no testosterone. Many cis young women dealing with PCOS actually have very high testosterone.

Some trans girls that are supported by their parents at that age would actually be taking hormone BLOCKERS to prevent puberty, therefore making them less like to have any athletic advantage.

Pretty much, hormones are whack as is the gender binary so fuck it all.

Also, I come from a sport where being tiny, light, and flexible make you the best at it so… yea.

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Another excellent point, thanks :slight_smile:

There is no such thing as “fully transitioned” - this is language based in the idea that people must jump through hoops (medically, legally, socially) to be validated as their gender identity.

I know you mean well @rabbitarian, but this thread rubs me the wrong way as asking marginalized people to educate you rather than doing the work on basic trans 101 primers around language and concepts before jumping into a much more complex topic (regulation of elite sports, which has a long history of gender and sex policing - which I happen to have published on back when I was a career person!).

I think a bunch of other posters have tried to say this more nicely.

I know you are genuine in trying to learn and expanding your knowledge base from what you grew up with. I encourage you to seek out resources that come from reputable LGBTQIA+ supportive organizations instead of asking people what they think of a potentially inflammatory and triggering article.

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I asked about this because someone in my family posted that article yesterday and I was having trouble articulating what I thought about it. I value the opinions of specific people in this community more than articles put out by an advocacy group because it’s people sharing their specific experiences that’s helped me understand this, not impersonal articles. Does that make sense?

It does, but intention =/= impact.

PFLAG is a great place to start, and they have resources for allies, individuals, and for family members.

https://pflag.org/

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What would have been a better way of asking my original question? Something like this?

“Someone in my family posted an article about regulating transgender athletes. I want to respond but despite being openly bisexual for several years I am very new to accepting transsexual people so I am unsure of where to look for resources?”

Another decent resource:

As for asking questions:

  • Transsexual is not an acceptable term in the circles I’m a part of. This may vary regionally, if we lived close I would recommend using the term transgender instead.

  • Take your personal identity out of this equation: your sexuality isn’t necessary/relevant to the question you’re trying to ask. If you’re not trans, you’re an ally in this case.

  • “New to accepting” can be read as “you still need to convince me.”

  • Consider saying “Does anyone have any gender affirming resources I could read and reference for this conversation?”

  • Do your best to first look for sources that are from the LGBTQ+ community rather than looking for news articles or studies.

I’m exhausted now and will be excusing myself from this conversation, but I hope this gives you a better starting point.

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For me, listening to the stories of transgender people was really impactful. The children’s novel George is a quick read and is an OwnVoices work. (The author regrets using the “deadname” for the title, but for me this did not lessen its utility.)

Another thing that struck me recently was an episode of The Double Shift called Don’t Call Me Mom, Call Me Ted. The person being interviewed had lived as a wife and mother of five before his transition. It was suuuper interesting to hear him talk about the assumptions he made when he was living as a woman and how hard it was to come to the conclusion that he was transgender.

I know there are tons of great stories. Those are just two that affected me personally.

I am a little older than you, like you I grew up when gay marriage was a radical concept, and I will admit that it’s taken me time to get where I am now. It didn’t come naturally to me. I have the advantage of working for an employer where acceptance is assumed and actively promoted through trainings and policies.

But my seven-year-old is THERE (we have read out loud together George and also Sex Is a Funny Word, which is very trans-friendly.) He had a question the other day about how people pee. Something to do with the bladder. I used the word “boys” in my answer, and he immediately corrected me. “You mean people with penises. A girl could have a penis. You don’t know.” I love that kid.

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I know you’re checking out of the convo and so might not see this, but I really appreciate your responses! Also, honest typo in using transsexual instead of transgender. I used transgender in the first sentence, not sure why my brain switched it in the other sentence.

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I don’t remember the name of the book, but there was a book linked a while back done by a photographer chronicling older transgender people’s experiences - the stories of these people, many who were 60+ years old, was especially eye-opening. The book itself was pretty expensive in print, but much of it was posted online in a blog format.

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IIRC that was a link that Oro posted in Able_Jack’s thread? If we’re talking about the same thing, it was deeply moving indeed.

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Very likely it was from that thread.

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Of the material I read this afternoon and evening on PFLAG and the sister project straight for equality I found the .pdf of “Our Trans Loved Ones” by far the most helpful. Wanted to mention that in case others reading this thread are in a position similar to mine, or if people appreciate knowing what an effective educational resource was when talking with others. Though maybe not all folks would be willing to read a document that’s ~70 pages not including the glossary and resources section, lol.

I had started understanding the distinction between gender identity and gender expression after the thread on gender I mentioned earlier but this .pdf really helped flesh it out. I also really liked how it presented issues for transgender and gender expansive people at all stages of life from early childhood through adulthood. As a parent (though of kids that so far seem to be cisgendered) it really spoke to me.

Thanks for pointing me to good resources, I definitely want to be an ally, and I’m sorry that through my ignorance I’ve caused harm by the way I phrased things.

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I’m really glad that you found it helpful :heart:

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