I didn’t know if anyone was still following or not.
The most recent episode - I forget their names - I thought was one of his best. This is the couple about to have a third child and the wife was freaking out about a bunch of things. Over the episode they both got some good insights.
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I actually listened to that one last night while I was making dinner. I was really confused though because they kept mentioning that their fixed expenses are 105% of their income but they never really dug into that? I think at one point he said they were going to address their spending and they just kept talking about their house and how much their rent was, and then the next thing I knew they were talking about how they can hire a nanny to come for 3 hours a day to help out and I was just like, how is that possible of fixed expenses are 105% of income, plus you still have variable expenses to pay for? I feel like i missed something but I don’t want to go back and re-listen. Then at the end they are talking about moving into the in-laws house and they say if they do that and get rid of their rent payment then their fixed expenses go down from 105% to 53%. I was still left with so many questions.
I did think Ramit did a better job this time around, but the wife of the couple really, really irritated me at the end. I majorly got vibes of “I’m just a woman, I can’t do math, I can’t use a spreadsheet.” When she couldn’t figure out where to delete their rent payment I just kept thinking that no one can seriously be that dense. I personally feel like it is part of being a responsible adult to go out of your way to learn how to manage money and learn how things like a budget work and it is just being lazy to fall back on “I don’t know how” as an excuse to put your head in the sand and be irresponsible.
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I agree with you! But many adults do just that (hide behind the “I’m not good at math / money”).
I think she got to see how she made all these demands for information etc. but then did nothing with the information. He got to see how they enabled this dynamic by playing the hero and swooping in to rescue her. I think once she finally got how to use the spreadsheet it was suddenly empowering to her?
I haven’t read the follow-up yet, I’m hoping these two gained some of the tools to start disentangling the 105%. I’m also curious what all is included in fixed costs. One of these days I suppose I may have to download this conscious spending plan.
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i didn’t listen to this ep yet but i think lots of people legitimately don’t get math or are intimidated by it. not saying that should be a dead end for learning and growing but it’s a real thing.
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The wife in that episode sent off my alarm bells too. I couldn’t believe that she would call him at work to berate him about how what he was providing wasn’t good enough?! That really shocked me. I cannot imagine calling my husband (at work!!!) to tell him that all of his efforts and hard work and literally paying for my entire life are inadequate because he can “only” afford to get us an apartment in a great area? Like, MA’AM. What is that old saying? “Thou must checketh thyself before thy wrecketh thyself?” Unbelievable. Like if your standards are sooo high maybe you should, IDK, get a job? She seemed extremely manipulative to me, and the guy sounded about 2 years and one flirty office relationship away from walking.
And I agree @madgeylou because that’s me with math. I never even got past Algebra in high school and took no math in college, and I think I got like a 550 on the math portion of my SAT, lol, and that was only as high as it was because the test I took just happened to have a lot of geometry (the only math that ever made sense to me). I was constantly falling tests and having to get extra help, etc. But I still think the way she expressed her anxiety felt like…fake helplessness. Because it wasn’t just the math, it was the computer that didn’t work, and she wasn’t looking at the spreadsheet, and she had never attempted to look at it, etc. She was so fast to throw up her hands and make excuses. It didn’t feel genuine to me.
Like, when I was first starting with personal finance the math freaked me out too, so I did little things like rounded all my numbers (so I had more than I thought in the bank and to make the math easier), used lots of online calculators, and asked people to check my work. Actually when I very first started out I used cash and envelopes because that was so real and made it so I didn’t have to do any math at all.
Now I don’t do that or the rounding, but my spreadsheets are still very simple and basic, not like most people’s here. It’s still enough, though! She struck me as someone who has gotten a lot by pretending she can’t even try things. I mean to not even be willing to look at something she’s explicitly asked for? Or fill out a form for the podcast she wanted to go on? Come on! But then, I have an icy cold heart when people start needlessly poor-me-ing about how some things are challenging for them, lol, which I’m sure is a huge surprise to exactly no one.
ETA: Oh and did anyone else find her follow-up really strange? She seemed to be implying that her husband is normally a super aggressive/angry guy. She said he was “shockingly” calm and nice about things on the podcast and that normally he’s confrontational? IDK, that also felt like a strange/manipulative thing to mention in a follow-up letter to a personal finance podcast host.
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hahaha yes! unwillingness to even try is a problem. i remember trying to teach someone to knit and seriously within 90 seconds they gave up cause it didnt make sense and i was like uhh do you maybe want to try for 5 or 10 minutes before you give up? how do you learn anything if you dont let yourself be bad at it?
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Ugh, right?! I can’t stand when people think that skills are just magically given to some people and not others. I always laugh when people lament being “bad” at things they’ve taken zero effort to learn, and that I’ve spent decades of my life doing, like dancing or cooking. I always want to ask, “Oh, how long did you take classes? Oh, NEVER? Well in that case you aren’t bad at it, you have literally never attempted it!”
LOL, like using that logic I could go around saying, “I’m such a bad astrophysicist,” or “I’m just awful at dressage.” 
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I always love your comments @AllHat !
She seemed overly dramatic to me (the whole bit about calling her husband up at work) so I took it with a grain of salt as yet more drama.
Some additional info on the 105% from Joe’s follow-up letter:
Also truth be told… I overinflated some of our expenses and provided what would be my base annual income. I didn’t do it deceptively, I just feel like no matter how much I make we need to get our spending under control and also not always rely on the extra money I bring in.
The “I didn’t do it deceptively” bit still has me scratching my head, I can’t see it as NOT being deceptive / manipulative.
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Ew, I don’t like the “truth be told” bit either. Those fillers always make me feel like the person is lying. 
ETA: And thank you! I enjoy yours too, and your reliable info on the follow-ups!
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I absolutely insist everyone listen to the latest episode. The couple are fully the Costanzas…which they literally point out themselves.
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!!! Will listen at lunch!
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You’re going to love it.
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Also people who use “to be perfectly honest”.
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Ooh, I’m excited to listen!
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I listened! I started off fully in judgmental mode just listening to the opening. My mom is the same age as the wife so it shouldn’t surprise me that she has a similar outlook on life as my mom “I expected to get married and have my husband provide for me and have my husband invest for our future and I’m angry at him that he didn’t do that.”
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So much going on in this episode. Felt disjointed to me–not sure if that’s how it was edited or if that’s how the call went? It was like Ramit couldn’t get them to focus/find a throughline. Maybe he felt like he was in over his head. For most of the call they are talking to Ramit, not each other. He didn’t have them roleplay any discussions with each other.
I don’t personally see bickering as a 100% negative thing? Sometimes it’s just how people talk, especially within my Jewish community. Yeah, it’s not great if that’s the only way you and your partner of 25 years have ever discussed money, which might be the case here 
The one part I laughed out loud at is when Ramit has Eric explain his “rich life vision,” dude says he wants a new-ish car, and Michelle is like “yeah I already know that.” LMAOOOO 
But he doesn’t have them connect on any things they mutually want in their rich life? And Ramit himself kind of makes fun of Michelle for wanting health insurance and long term care (?!?!).
I walked away from this unsure about who this couple is. What do they do for a living? What were the bad business decisions Eric made that led to filing for bankruptcy? Where is all their money going? We didn’t get the foundation built before we started on the 2nd floor. The episode summary for this one was exciting to me–I know a lot of people who feel hopeless, like it is too late for them and they don’t have enough time or cashflow to let compound interest do its thing. I don’t think Ramit addressed that at all in the episode itself, though. Remember the episode with the two physical therapists who also felt hopeless? He dug into that mindset and got them to brainstorm some ways to feel like they were moving forward. Did anyone get a sense for what exactly Ramit is going to have them DO to materially improve their futures?
Idk I got nothing from this one but I think I’d like to go out for dinner with Michelle and Eric, for the entertainment value.
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OH and I also loved the part where Michelle said, “what’s the difference between a budget and a conscious spending plan? They sound like the same thing.” Ramit is getting sick of that question
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My favorite part was when Michelle was like, “explain how a conscious spending plan is different from a budget, because they sound exactly the same to me.” 
I was like giiiiirl please can you teach me assertiveness classes? I bet she ALWAYS gets the sauce on the side when she wants it.
I agree though, it wasn’t well framed or explained. It sounds like the guy kind of lied on his forms since he didn’t mention the bankruptcy.
ETA: hahah, you said the same thing! Sorry, meds, lol.
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Ha! Yes! I actually yelled “there isn’t a difference” when she asked 
I honestly think he looks at budgets differently than other people. He said a budget is always backward looking and you get to the end of the month and look at what you did with everything, instead of looking forward at what you can do with your money. I look at how much money I have for the future month, figure out what my mandatory fixed expenses are, figure out where I want my discretionary spending to land (based upon my values and “living my rich life”) and figure out how much I want to allocate to my savings goals. Then I set the categories. It is completely forward looking and I still think he’s full of shit and his conscious spending plan is a budget.
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Deep agreement that her assertiveness is awe-inspiring!! I also love the part where she was like “I don’t know that much about you.” Ramit’s like the guy who gets pulled over for speeding and asks if the cop KNOWS WHO I AM lol
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