The 2024 election draws nigh, and I want to have a kiki.
I like Harris’ background as law enforcement and court officer. America is a country of law, and it’s great to have a lawyer in high office. Plus, I fully enjoyed watching her ease with rhetoric confound, confuse and needle Trump during the debate. Though, I do wish her campaign would put more info out on her fiscal policy.
I still think it’s going to be a very tight race. The frustration and crazy that supports the rise of populist candidates hasn’t gone away. Worse, I think the R’s McConnell-era policy of using vryano has actually bred a generation of true believers. The Marjory Taylor Green’s of government won’t just fade away if the Dems win in 2024. It would be great if the DNC had a plan for national reunification along with their fiscal platform, though I recognize that’s a tall ask.
Over all I have much more hope for a Democratic win under Harris than I had when Biden fronted the ticket. Though a Biden/Harris ticket would have been easier for me to vote for.
All in all, it’s going to be an interesting 6 weeks. What say you?
I’m seeing a lot more energy for Harris, in both directions. People that were meh about Biden seem to be either excited about or totally opposed to Harris, and I’m not sure to what degree or in what direction that tips the balance.
Ooh, I learnt a new word today! Vryano is one I’ve not heard before. I agree that it seems tight, but its hard to say what will actually happen since so much depends on voters showing up to vote.
mod hat on
Just jumping in early because this is off to a good start, that we will be keeping things civil in this thread or it will be locked Mod hat off
I have very little exposure to non-leftists in my life, but can report that the vast majority of leftists I know are MUCH more excited about Harris than Biden. Which is a big win, because it was getting really hard to motivate people to at least do an anti-Trump vote when the choice was Biden.
I can’t follow current events closely for mental health reasons, so I’m not sure how her actual policies will differ from Biden.
I think a lot of excitement stems from Harris being Not Another Old White Guy, and her campaign branding in yard signs and such is really clever, particularly ones I’ve seen that pay homage to the Obama campaigns
(I live in a place that’s had functional mail-in voting available for everyone for something like ten years, and the amount of consternation I can cause by pointing that out while visiting parent in an extremely red state is kind of hilarious. Parent and parent’s spouse are generally fine, but their friends/relatives generally aren’t, and the amount of work time they spend insisting there’s some kind of illegal plot afoot even if that’s been repeatedly disproven is impressive)
Seriously, though, where I am I’ve seen more people excited for Harris than Biden, but nobody seemed to interested in Trump in the first place so that really hasn’t changed. I do know quite a few single-issue voters (the single issue greatly varies), though, and where they’ll go if Harris doesn’t say what they want is in question. Not clear if they’ll hold their noses because Trump is worse, or if it’ll be a third party, or they just won’t vote at all. Although the good thing about having mail-in ballot as a default option is that it’s likely that they’ll just skip the presidential slot and still vote on other things.
I’m bringing this over from the Current Events thread, to avoid any derailment.
The thing is, my vote isn’t dependent on the candidate demanding an end to US financial and military support in Israel. I have other concerns domestically.
I know it’s cold. I know it’s a shame. I know I will have to answer for my decisions. I can still call my reps and urge a change, but Israel and Palestine are not going to influence my vote. I’ve worked my whole adult life in this kind of triage, what line will my country be drawing in morality, and it…sucks. But I’ve yet to find a way around every decision having a moral implication.
This is sort of where I am at also. The US financial and military support of a genocide is deplorable, and I want to do whatever I can to push back. But it is not the only issue that is important to me, AND I also think that pushing back on Israel requires electing Harris.
That is possibly an unpopular opinion, but I truly believe the situation would get even worse under a Trump administration - he’ll roll over and give Netanyahu whatever he wants. At least under Harris, I think organizing around this issue has a chance of making an impact. And domestically, re-electing Trump will bring a world of pain to a lot of other communities I care about (including my own).
Maybe I’m pessimistic, but I’m at a political stage where I have issues with a lot of parts of our government and I’ve never agreed with any candidate on every issue. I don’t see my vote as an endorsement for every single item in their platform. I view voting for Harris as more of an overall harm reduction strategy. In a vacuum, do I support her support of Israel? No. Do I think her positions are less bad than Trump’s? Yes. Do I think her positions are worlds better on other domestic issues? Yes.
Unfortunately the reality is that one of these two people will be president, and it cannot be Trump. So I am voting for Harris.
I am not in your election, but… I would frame it as, if I vote for Harris, I and my community will have the safety and energy we need to push back on ending the support for the genocide. If I vote for Trump, we will be spending all our time fighting him and trying to survive.
I’m in the same situation. I feel relatively powerless to change what is happening in the Middle East. My not voting for Harris increases the chances that Trump is elected, and I can’t live with that. I’m voting for Harris
The lesser of two evils argument has been at the centre of democratic strategy for decades. Democratic voters need to push much much harder on their candidates. They need to earn your vote. Abortion rights are a make or break issue for me - I can never, under any circumstances support a political candidate that is anti-choice. But I also can’t support a candidate that votes for the continued financial and military funding of a genocide.
"Politics: the art of convincing decent people to forget the lesser of two evils is also evil.” - Edward Snowden
I absolutely agree with you @aurora, the lesser of two evils argument sucks balls. I wasn’t really aiming for that, though I see why my post was interpreted that way.
What I meant to say is that Harris is the better choice for me, personally, to continue to live in America. I’m putting myself, and my friends above the suffering in Israel and Palestine.
It’s not a particularly moral stand. I won’t try to justify it to anyone. But it is the choice I’m making. I’ll admit to it, even if I won’t change it.
But maybe people here have a better idea on how to get around this zero sum problem. I thought it was worth opening the floor to discussion.
i may be delusional, but i think harris has been as clear as she can be that she does not support netanyahu. she has also shown herself to be sensitive and responsive to criticism. i do not think she will continue biden’s policies with netanyahu.
and i don’t think she is evil. the american president has to make impossible decisions every day — often choosing the lesser of two evils themselves. i do not trust trump to make those decisions. i do trust harris to make them to the best of her ability.
side note: in 2000, i took a leave of absence from my job and moved to florida and worked for ralph nader. i made all the same arguments that many leftists who are understandably upset about palestine are making today. like, word for word the exact same arguments. i still remember how i felt when nader didn’t get enough votes to do anything useful but did get enough to tip the election to the supreme court.
imagine what the world might be like today if al gore was the president during 9/11 instead of bush. imagine what we might have been able to do about climate change.
regrets, i have a few. i don’t want to do that again. far better to have a halfway decent person in charge of the world’s biggest levers of power than a declining madman (and if you don’t think trump will be 25th amendmented and replaced by vance within moments, please share some of what you are smoking).
Fair points. I guess my issue is that much more needs to be done between election cycles - elected and campaigning officials need to be pushed on these issues, and our political advocacy needs to be constant, not just every 4 years.
i agree with that guardian piece. at the same time, i think harris is walking an incredible tight rope at present. pulling away from biden is a big risk for her to take. she may feel the stakes are too high or maybe you’re right and she won’t do anything different. she is very precise with her language, though, and in her 60 minutes interview, she made it plain that she considers herself an ally of the israeli people over their current murderous leader.
working for ralph was fun and it felt meaningful at the time. it was chaotic and i slept on many couches and i had a lot of conversations with people. in retrospect, it was a mistake and i wish al gore had won.
PDM ain’t voting for anyone.