That’s an interesting idea! I like it, kind of like Maslow’s hierarchies only financial.
I see money as a temporary tool that can be used to meet many ends. My aims are to have it provide my family with security and comfort in the present and the future, and choices in the future. Without money your choices disappear pretty quickly, and it’s really hard to adapt the fewer choices you have, IMO. Of course, if you have to you can live without comfort but if you’re fortunate enough to have enough income to enjoy current comfort, and make sure your future comfort is provided for, I think that’s a really wonderful thing and that’s my goal.
So this isn’t rich and regular but I listened to a good podcast last night about Coast FI. I hadn’t really heard about this concept before and I think it is really interesting. I like the nuanced way of showing how it’s okay to have different savings rates in different phases of life and it seeks to find the balance between enjoying your money while still preparing for a future.
Maybe coast FI is just a rebranding of “traditional retirement” but I think they illustrate how money can buy freedom and it’s okay to not want FIRE to be the only goal.
If you listen let me know what you think! They even mention the book from “Rich and Regular” as one of their favorite finance books so it does link to this thread, barley, lol.
I don’t like all of bigger pockets stuff but I found the “rich life” from this show. There are some interesting episodes on the “bigger pockets money” podcast and I have just become good at filtering what I want to listen to from reading their detailed pod descriptions (like the “make MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PASSIVELY” one is easy enough to skip haha).
If you find any others you like let me know. Mindy has an adorable laugh and I do enjoy the way they really don’t judge their guests.
I’m loving building my money podcast library out! Rich and regular has been so fun to listen to.
I like reading Jessica from The Fioneers’ blog because it leans towards very values-based & life-design-thinking longer form content (like Get Rich Slowly when JD’s writing). Thanks for linking this podcast episode!
Not rich and regular but another interesting bigger pockets money episode and I don’t know which thread to share it in.
This was about a couple in a similar situation to me- DINKs who followed MMM and saved ~1M in net worth until having kids. She quit her job and their savings rate went from 40-50% down to 10-15%. They are 35 and about to have their third kid in November.
Their money is allocated ~200k in home equity, ~200k in after tax assets and ~600k in 401k and other retirement assets iirc.
They were talking about how to allocate their money for their current situation, do they want to Coast FI? Do they want to cut their spending? Do they want to move to a LCOL to be closer to family? She doesn’t like needing to budget but they kind of have to even though they have such a high net worth because it’s all inaccessible in retirement accounts.
It seems like it is a big mental shift from saving so much to not as much and I am going to need to face this too. The host asked them “if I gave you $1M of after tax dollars, how would you allocate it?” Which is a really good question to ask myself! They were planning on doing a Roth conversion ladder but with him still making ~100k/year so it hasn’t made sense to start that yet tax wise.
One note from me- the further I get away from the MMM “face punches” the happier I feel. It’s not all about SAVE EVERY PENNY OR YOUR LAZY AND WORTHLESS. There is a lot more nuance and it’s not a moral failing to want a higher level of spending and comfort. This was another reminder of that for me.
I recently checked on his site and he has a few new posts and has totally mellowed out. He took a trip with his kid and if I recall correctly he paid to park his car at the airport and get good flight seats for comfort and convenience. Guess it’s a new phase of life for him (and now he has more money than he knows what to do with)!
So I didn’t listen to the last 10-15 mins before posting! I have more thoughts. In the last 10-15 mins they ask the guest to go back to a few budget categories (grocery, misc spending, etc totaling 2700/month) and make sure they still want to spend that money. She mentioned that they don’t really have a savings goal right now beyond getting the 401k match and home equity so there hasn’t been pressure to optimize anymore.
In the route to frugality we track every penny and are extremely disciplined for many budget categories. As we earn more and save more and get more comfortable some categories start to increase in spending (or all of them). Sometimes thats a good thing (rich life living) and sometimes it was in ways that we don’t expect or want. We don’t have to accept every aspect of increased spending as an improvement in life and it’s okay to keep questioning where your money is going and if you’re spending to align with your values and goals.
I’m thinking on this next month’s budget review (and maybe 1-2x/year) it would be worth taking a more critical look at each category and talking about if we are okay with it instead of just plugging in numbers and moving on. I’m thinking the following categories are up for discussion: travel, groceries, shopping, personal care. We might not make any changes but we might want to pull back on some comforts and conveniences. I bet this will change as life changes which is why the 1-2x per year would be a good rhythm but 1x/month feels too frequent.
I’m wondering if life will always be a cycle of frugality, rich life living and loosening up frugality, reaching an inflection point and seeing if spending still matches values, pull back on spending in areas that it doesn’t match, back to frugality and repeat.
I am personally really feeling the lack of motivation to be frugal without any concrete mid term financial goal (outside of funneling money into investments and being on auto pilot). We have a rule in my house if it is under $20 we just buy it, no questions or thoughts. These haven’t increased our spending in a significant way because it’s maybe only 1-2x/week but maybe we put categories onto this rule too? Like keeping lunches for work and transportation free from thought but limiting categories like fancy groceries and new gadgets and Amazon to a 2-3 day waiting period.
More to think about, I didn’t expect this episode to be so thought provoking for me.
Ooo I’m gonna make a BiggerPockets thread if that’s OK? I probably don’t have it in me to listen to more than one financial podcast at once, if I’m being honest with myself.
Slowly but surely still working through this podcast. I have grown to really admire the hosts and their voices are so nice to have in the background as I work. I also picked up their book (Cashing Out) from the library and I realized it’s the first personal finance book I’ve read where the minority experience in the workplace is a central point in favor of FIRE. Why work twice as hard for half as much, fewer promotional opportunities, etc. when you can get out of the game entirely and make your money work for you instead. Highly recommend.
In episode 30: Your Career Is Not Your Identity, they mention a documentary they were a part of called Playing With Fire. I want to watch it with DH!
It’s cool that they mention it explicitly! I found MMM after my first week in an office job and the realization that there was no way I could work in those conditions for 30+ years. I literally googled, “how to retire early” or something like that, so it was my #1 driving factor. I wonder sometimes if I’d have been so early on investing and learning about money if I were non-disabled because I knew nothing and only jumped into the information so ferociously because of how bad the workplace was for me. And then I ended up doing things the old fashioned way (marrying rich) haha, that’s mostly a joke- DH was a warehouse worker when we married, lol, but I like to joke that I married him for money and he says, “wow, long con…like, really long. too long.” I also like to tell him he should do what I did, find himself an -allhat’s husband’s name- and retire young! In all seriousness though I am sure it’s a factor for a lot of people of all different types of minority and it’s great they’re talking about it!
I didn’t know they had a documentary too! I fell off the personal finance media for a bit but I’m feeling ready to dive back in so I should listen to some more of their podcasts! And definitely watch the movie!
Yeah so interesting to also think about the way white women responded to being women in male dominated spaces–“lean in,” “girlboss,” etc. Instead of–what can I do so I don’t have to do this for 50 years!
That is interesting. I definitely saw racial discrimination when I was working, both times that I can recall were black women, one of whom was a good friend and co-worker the other who was a potential hire. It was very obvious there were additional massive obstacles for them and it was always couched in infuriating language. The first instance I witnessed I was a receptionist (as was my friend) and I had no say on anything/wasn’t even in those meetings, but during the second I pushed back hard (I had more clout then) and tried to get the person in question hired, but was overruled and she wasn’t. The reasoning was absolutely 100% prejudicial in my opinion. I saw it with disability too, but that’s obviously easier for me to see since it also happens to me.
IDK how you feel, but while I dealt with some sexual harassment at jobs, other than that I never felt like being a white woman at work was a minority/disadvantage at all. In some instances it was definitely an advantage to be female. I mean, in tech you’ll get a few gross or weird comments, like asking if my husband got me the job, commenting on my clothes, company reps asking me out, etc. or assuming I didn’t know things, but I never felt like it was an actual obstacle to getting jobs or money.
I wonder if what you described (lean in, girl boss stuff) changes over a certain age, though. I left the workforce young so I won’t experience it myself but I’ve read and heard a lot about increased issues of discrimination when a woman passes a certain age. But I also wonder if it’s less discrimination and more the sudden lack of younger-white-lady preferential treatment.
Thank you for this recc! I had a friend come to me asking “so…where do I start with any of this finance stuff” and I realized I had very few resources from people who are not total bros, lol. Added to my library list
I work in industrial supplies now, but prior to this I was in publishing and nonprofits. In publishing it’s well-documented that (white) women make up the majority of the lower paying roles like marketing etc, while men are usually in the positions of actual power. First thing I found when googling:
Same is pretty true for nonprofits, I believe.
But in industrial supplies, it’s a little different. Women are accepted as secretaries or purchasers but it’s still really rare to find us in engineering and more STEM-related roles which sucks. And leadership? Forget it. So I’ve seen two distinct flavors in my 10 or so years as a working adult.
in my experience white female competence (especially conventionally attractive white female competence) is rewarded early, and then becomes less and less desired at upper levels when it is about power plays and negotiations and who feels comfortable working with you and going out for beers and talking about hockey and comparing cars and partners and cottages.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I decided to be FI by 50 because I saw that women in my industry tended to be caught in layoffs around then and have a lot of trouble finding something new at a similar level. (granted now I can see it was more complex with those particular women not having decent professional reputations & networks, but I don’t regret early 30s me taking action)
I also like to tell him he should do what I did, find himself an -allhat’s husband’s name- and retire young! In all seriousness though I am sure it’s a factor for a lot of people of all different types of minority and it’s great they’re talking about it!
so I should listen to some more of their podcasts! And definitely watch the movie!