I think too that sometimes when people are focused on policing someone’s word choices when talking about a topic, the result is actively shutting down that dialogue. Because language changes, and because people only know what they know.
11 Likes
Language changes SO much. I see this especially in the trans and adjacent spaces, you read stuff written even 10 years ago and the language has shifted so much since then.
9 Likes
Does anyone have any idea how I can get a copy of this:
I ordered a back copy from the newspaper and instead I got this. Same headline, date, it’s a newspaper and not a magazine … 
Customer service was useless.
2 Likes
I just listened to a Planet Money question about carbon offsets that work by preventing deforestation. Basically, someone claims an area of forest and works with the people who live there to not cut it down (for palm oil or pulp or whatever). Companies pay them to keep the forest from being cut down, and consider that a carbon offset.
One of the questions Planet Money had was whether this kind of carbon offset actually works. They talked a little about people studying it and concluded that the question was still up in the air.
This seems so obviously, baldly nonsensical that if Planet Money thinks it’s a “maybe” and not a “no” that I feel like I must be missing something.
If I’m running around my neighborhood punching everyone I can find in the face, and my husband is running around a different neighborhood punching everyone he can find in the face, then I can’t go face-punching neutral by paying him to stop punching people. Punching is still happening, and the people he already punched don’t become un-punched. Even if he starts giving them bruise cream instead… punch neutral is not happening because I’m still punching people.
6 Likes
This has been a really interesting conversation and I appreciate everyone’s contributions. I agree with I think Oro who said that they actually avoid all the examples given in the original question and it’s been interesting to really think about what I mean when I’m thinking about saying crazy because I’ve used it pretty broadly and sometimes I mean intense or chaotic or hard to believe so it’s improving my vocabulary.
I also can’t remember who mentioned the fear about young people not ready for the real world but I actually think it’s pretty cool that generations now are rejecting things that we’ve all had to put up with and saying they aren’t going to accept it as the status quo anymore. Yes it is more stressful for many of us who have been used to using this language a long time but I’m okay with giving up some comfort to make others more comfortable. I haven’t experienced people being mean to me or shutting down conversations though, they’ll usually say something like, “you know I’ve been hearing from members of the xxx community that that term can be problematic so I’m trying to use yyyy instead” and then we move on. Or in some cases I might say, “oh that’s interesting, I’d actually recently heard zzzz so I’ll look into that more.”
When I’m looking into it, I try to focus on voices within the community as much as possible. So for example, I hear special needs and differently abled a lot from people who aren’t disabled but the disabled adults I know mostly prefer identity first language (ie disabled) so I tend to use that unless a person has told me they prefer person first language.
Of course words without action is not cool and I find the “inclusive” places without a ramp or working elevator really problematic and confusing.
8 Likes
I haven’t looked into it too much but here’s my guess: it seems to me that preventing deforestation is different from your comparison in a few ways - trees actually do capture carbon so they can fight some of the impact AND the idea would be to make keeping forests widely the better option as if you were protecting multiple neighborhoods so you’d have to drive further to punch people or pay more for access and you might suddenly find that therapy or a boxing class makes more sense than punching people because the math has changed?
I mean personally I’m just pro therapy anyway but some people need the equation to change to make it worth it.
5 Likes
$110 for a cordless orbital sander from Black & Dekker (we already have battery/charger from our cordless drill) or $330 for one from DeWalt plus a battery & charger?
The primary use is to prepare the fence in the front yard to be repainted, both tasks which will be owned by the shadowy one.
1 Like
I have black & decker cordless tools and they’re fine. Not amazing, but fine. Unless you’re a contractor you are probably fine with fine.
2 Likes
SirB says: if you’re going to use it for the one project, get the B&D. If you’re going to use it for multiple projects, get the dewalt. It’s the “pro-sumer” option, so as Snacky says, more geared to contractors/heavy use/etc.
2 Likes
I deeply appreciate your (and others’) points of view! I was the one who mentioned concern about young people being resilient and prepared for the real world. For me personally, I don’t find it uncomfortable or stressful to change my language at all. I think it’s a pretty easy ask in general, but I know some people are jerks about it just because they’re jerks.
My concern truly isn’t coming from a place of “I wanna say crazy so I’m gonna say crazy no matter who it hurts because damn PC culture!” haha. I also don’t think young people should have to deal with things just because we did. I’m very much pro progress on making things better for the next generation. I’m just not convinced that’s what’s happening in this case of language and identity stuff. Increasing polarization seems, to me, connected to this somehow, as does increased fragility.
Long ass personal story that probably no one wants to read in full
I fell really deep and hard into this type of identity-first language-change thinking for a couple of years. Initially, it was incredibly empowering and satisfying. To have strangers believe me, tell me my pain was valid, that I was victimized, that I was experiencing a pervasive “ism”, and that it wasn’t all in my head. Finding others like me who had similar experiences. I needed that and had never had it before. I felt powerful and justified in my anger in a new way. Calling people out felt good. Telling people I didn’t have to educate them felt good. In some ways it was like I had increased my status socially by embracing labels more strongly and sharing things through that lens specifically. My opinions were definitely granted more importance than they had been previously.
After that honeymoon stage, though, I found myself becoming gradually more sensitive to things that hadn’t bothered me before. I felt upset more often, not less often, and I found myself thinking about myself in identity terms. For most of my life I’ve thought about myself as AllHat, mixed bag of a human just like everyone else! I found that increasingly I was thinking of myself in terms of immutable identity and power structures, and I thought more and more and more about unfairness beyond my control. I saw a lot more ableism and hatred in the world in so many interactions and my anxiety rose correspondingly. I felt like I had no power in the world.
It took me a while to unravel all this stuff and I probably still am. I think seeing that all this inclusion language didn’t really change behaviors or attitudes IRL, like I mentioned with the gym and cafe, is what initially made me second guess it. That the reactions to requests for accessibility were marked by flailing impossiblism and a kind of frantic “but how could we even DO that?! OMG it’s all so hard!” with no attempt whatsoever to figure it out, simply try things and see what works, etc. made me feel worse than being treated poorly in a place where I’d expect it to some degree (e.g. medical settings).
I decided to try out functioning the way I had before encountering all this stuff, which I had been told was wrong by well meaning friends (i.e. I shouldn’t “have” to give the benefit of the doubt to others, I shouldn’t “have” to explain things, It “isn’t ok” for people to do xyz, etc.). I started giving the benefit of the doubt again, which was so much harder than it ever had been before. I shifted to not being too picky about language, explaining things in full when asked even if the question made me feel a trauma response, and not thinking about everything as being a power dynamic or something to do with my “identity”, which was wayyyy harder to give up than I thought. My anxiety went down and is still decreasing, and my ability to interact even in relatively challenging situations is going up. I feel less like a victim and less targeted in general, and I feel I am just now starting to get back to a position of strength in myself. I also see past events differently, usually more charitably to the other person. Everything just seems way less extreme.
Anyway, all this made me question why a movement whose purpose (I truly believe) is to empower and include and uplift, had such an opposite impact in my case. I’m not so unique, and so I wonder what this impact has on younger and less experienced minds who are being told that this thinking is the path to being a good person, that intention is irrelevant in your response to things, that words can cause serious irrevocable harm, that identity matters most, that you owe no one politeness/benefit of the doubt, that if someone says something is offensive you must never do it, that you are very fragile and must be protected, that every interaction is not with a human but a power dynamic, etc.
I think of myself as a pretty mentally strong person but I was completely carried off with this type of thinking, which began with shifts in language, because part of it feel so so so good…until it doesn’t. If I had encountered these ideas as a younger disabled person in my teens when I was peak pissed off and confused…man, I’m so glad I didn’t. I honestly don’t know if I would have tried to do half the things I’ve done. It would have all seemed so hopeless and impossible and the world would have seemed so frightening.
Just in a sharing mood I suppose 
thanks for the space, peeps.
22 Likes
I’ve missed your voice a lot, and I’m sorry you don’t have a journal, but I’m glad you’re still here and talking about important stuff. I’ve learned a lot from listening to you, so thank you for sharing your perspectives.
I still really miss the food pictures and recipes though.
13 Likes
WHOOPSIES I ramble... As usual
This is rambling and not at all well thought out, just stream of consciousness
From my very limited worldview, I think that the responsibility is on me as a white cis person to step up and step in when people who have not lived an experience are asking questions.
I follow a local black photographer on social media who has posted recently about sometimes feeling so much rage they wish the city would have burned completely, and that they feel glad white folk had to drive to the suburbs for food, and they feel bad about that and then bad about feeling bad and it’s a vicious cycle that how does anyone who (*is lucky enough to have the ability to be mentally present) has experienced lifelong trauma ever not have awareness as part of their awareness?
Our society - by “our” I mean colonial white society as that is the space in which most of us live - is set up to always put the onus of progress on those who are oppressed. All facets of society. My mere existence is part of the reason people who are not white able bodied neurotypical cis people are forced to go through these personal, intimate, intense roller coaster journeys to figure out how best to express themselves in the world. The faster people get over fragility the faster we can open avenues for oppressed people to be a true part of MY society.
When there is too big a divide between the worldview/life experience and language between two people or two groups, the likelihood of understanding and progress is zero. This is where I think language choice inadvertently shuts down dialogue.
Even language around things that are helpful like mutual aid reinforces the current status quo.
In my own life this means getting to know someone enough to know their frame of reference and speak to them on their terms if it’s someone resistant to ideas of inclusion. I am very fortunate to not have life experience that makes this difficult - merely uncomfortable.
Thank you smacky for fixing my 42 attempts at spoilering 
10 Likes
Does it have to be cordless? Corded Dewalt would only be $60 or so and would let you work as long as possible, not worrying about battery charging downtime.
Aw, thank you @rocklobster. I worried a bit before posting so I’m glad to hear all this positive feedback!
Spoilered for space
I bounced from OMD when I was going through all this (I left social media at the same time too, not returning to that ever, haha but it’s lovely to be back). I like that this is a place where I can still ask these types of questions and get better understanding of how people feel and think about things. It’s hugely helpful for me and l learn a lot here! I’m also really thankful people took my question in good faith.
Speaking of food pictures-- I made my first cheesecake last night! It looks really pretty but I’m afraid to cut into it because it’s super wobbly. It might just live in my fridge forever.
Thanks for your reply too @katscratch and hi! I didn’t know there were issues with the term “mutual aid” but I will look into that. I agree about the divide between worldview and life-experience/language making it more difficult to communicate.
Spoilered for space
I guess with putting it on the oppressed to fix oppression…that seems to me to be a feature of all societies and somewhat inevitable (like what’s happening in Myanmar). I understand the importance of allies, but I think it will always be “on” the group being oppressed to do the primary speaking/educating/awareness raising/etc. It’s unfortunate because it’s another unpleasant “thing” but when dominate groups try to do the work for other groups…it seems to not go well because they lack the understanding required to solve the problem. I am learning to accept this as a fact, that I do have to do this stuff and I can’t expect others to do it because…it’s just not a reasonable ask. I think allyship is possible, but I’m still going to have to answer a lot of questions along the way, lol. I need to be able to do that without it impacting my mental health so much, and seeing it as more innocent (i.e. seeing it as humans making mistakes rather than part of larger power structures) helps a lot.
You brought something new to my mind, too. I wonder how much world view impacts the desire to change one’s own language (or see those changes as important/the least one can do). Your view that your existence is partly why others experience oppression must be a huge motivator! Does that make you feel guilty? And looking at our current society and seeing it as a colonial white society that is divided in two groups, one with power and one without, must also play a big role.
If you care to answer a follow-up, since you mentioned meeting people where they are: how do you feel if you’re speaking to someone who seems to be an able/cis/straight/white person and they aren’t using preferred terms? Not that they’re using racial slurs or anything like that, but just less preferred terms like African American or wheelchair bound or transgendered. Does that impact how you see them? Does it feel like your responsibility to correct them and inform since they are also white/able/all those things? Does it change at all if the person is a category of “other” in some way? If you’re over this topic that’s ok too, lol. I’m just curious about this new thread and the idea of meeting people where they are but also changing language at the same time. Thanks for sharing your world view as well.
I definitely used to feel like the instagram guy you follow writing, “how does anyone who has experienced lifelong trauma ever not have awareness as part of their awareness?” but I no longer feel that way, or I am trying not to feel that way. It’s still hard to grasp in certain settings and it doesn’t make the anger or hurt disappear completely, but it helps me not dehumanize people who seem to dehumanize me…if that makes sense? Like, I recently had a PT literally do an impression of my disability to my face, and weirdly this happens a lot in medical settings. People basically as they’re explaining my condition begin to physically contort themselves to “show” me what I look like. I think it might be almost unconscious. Anyway, I had to ask her to stop and she did. I literally said, “hey, can you please not do an impression of me? I have had to watch lots of people do impressions of me and it’s really hard.” She got super red and stopped but didn’t apologize. To her credit, she never did it again and I think she was mortified.
It IS easy to think, and my very first thought was, “how on earth can someone not know that’s not ok?” But…the fact is they don’t know and most people don’t know, so I have to tell them. And if I’m honest: I also don’t know. I said gay to mean stupid all the time as a kid and I wore a mandarin collar dress and chopsticks in my hair (though thankfully no makeup) when I danced the solo “Chinese dance” in the nutcracker. I mean, yikes. I should have known. How could I not know that’s not ok? But…I didn’t. I had never even heard the words cultural appropriation (2003) and no one around me said anything negative about it. They thought it was great and congratulated me! All I cared about was getting the solo and making sure my boyfriend came on opening night.
Anyway, that’s what I use to remind myself that what I feel isn’t always accurate in terms of intention, and that it isn’t fair to expect people to understand my experiences. The dominant theme on social media is the exact inverse of this, and describes most interactions like these in terms of a binary power structure, which is so much more enraging and disempowering than seeing it as a one off personal failing. Trying to see things in a less harsh way is slowly making it easier for me to deal with the stuff I deal with. It’s just too bleak to believe that alllll these people don’t give a shit or don’t see me as human, and now that I’m less angry…I really don’t think it’s even true. I can’t change the way the world works but I can change my approach by being assertive and having strong boundaries, but also choosing to see things in a more human-centered way versus political/power structure way.
IDK, it’s working for me so far, haha, but I should probably wait and report back in another year. 
Edited bc words are hard.
10 Likes
Not getting at all to the big questions you are dealing with here, but I do want to point out that a yummy cheesecake you have to eat with a spoon is still a yummy cheesecake.
12 Likes
Is that an ancient proverb? Ur wise.
10 Likes
cheesecake is a custard, and so a shallow bowl if it is very soft seems appropriate. Also it is an appropriate food for breakfast because of all the eggs and cream cheese.
11 Likes
That is logic I can get behind. Also I had no idea there were so many eggs in cheesecake before making one! 6 eggs! 6!
ETA Update: Cut into it and it set perfectly except for about a 3 inch circle in the center, which is a little on the custard side. Not bad for a first attempt, am eating now because eggs.
17 Likes
I also really like your perspective and it’s so nice to see you back writing here 
8 Likes
Aw, thank you! <3
2 Likes