Good to know! Just reading the excerpt and this looks fascinating.
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How else you think Wizard picked up this hot self over here, I think we talked about metaphor and language for like 1/3 of our first (hours long) date. 
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Haha, steamy!
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I think that I sometimes take offense to insane or specific diagnoses (bipolar and ocd come to mind) but not crazy. I feel like crazy and idiot both jumped into casual use 500 years before I was born. And generally I’d lean more to raise an eyebrow than take offense.
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ETA I commented before fully reading
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I missed the original comment but I hope I didn’t upset you! Willing to edit if needed
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No no no. I mean that the conversation progressed as I was live commenting reactions and Dia said smart things about language and suggested books
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I was working with a client who made a product which was characterized by some people as “lame”. But it was also a product that some people with mobility issues used because it addressed problems that the traditional players in the space didn’t. So the use of “lame” to mean undesirable or uncool started to really irk me. We don’t use the term “gay” like that any more, and people certainly did when I was growing up.
But I still struggle with taking ‘crazy’ out of my spoken vocabulary even when there are better words, and I was a regular reader in a space for years where that was a banning offence after first warning.
I’m getting really irritated at people who seem to think that the goal is to come up with “How might we” statements, and then not actually take it further, figure out what needs to be made, put it into the world…
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Wild is a good substitute for “crazy” but every time I use it I have a sneaking suspicion that in 5 years it will also be problematic.
I attempt to figure out what I actually mean by “crazy” in the sentence and then use that word instead. Like wild, or disruptive, or malicious or deliberately ignorant. But sometimes it’s hard to find synonyms that don’t also have mental health connotations (some people use bananas or similar which to me basically mean crazy with the exact same implications). And the logical conclusion of that kind of language change is to remove insults based on the way ones brain functions (stupid, moron, crazy) which I… agree with in theory. There’s a very good Twitter thread about how the process of comparing people by “intelligence” is inherently ableist. But I have not mustered the strength of will to start rooting out/dismantling the ways my entire worldview is built on the validation of academic intelligence.
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And one of the problems is that most of the synonyms for crazy are also super problematic? Even stuff like “Beyond the pale” is rooting in colonization and historical exclusion of marginalized groups (the “pale” is the Latin word for fence, so everyone “beyond the pale” is uncivilized and excluded from civilization. Im aware that it’s what the english settlements in Ireland called it, and also the pale was the areas of imperial Russia where Jews were allowed to live). So then I am very tempted to shrug and give up.
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I try to use bizarre or ridiculous in lieu of crazy or insane. I often forget. Each time I use those words I have a moment of realizing that I used a non-preferred term, which I’ve noticed is a step on my way to not using that word any more.
As a person who sometimes can’t walk I sometimes use lame or lameass literally, which amuses me.
Referring to myself as disabled has been a process of acceptance. I still can’t do it lightly or easily, and I don’t give a fuck about putting the person before the disability in speech.
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lol I have gotten major “progressive” sideye for referring to my own personal mobility issues as lame. I get that it makes some people uncomfortable but uh. On days when I cannot walk. I think I deserve to cackle at that joke.
In general I think that language matters and words have impact but, as others have said, often there is more significant work to be done with obvious benefit. I care a lot more about word choice / impact convos in contexts with more impact - e.g. journalistic style guides.
I have cut way back on my usage of words like “crazy” but it’s hard and it takes effort and attention, which some people just don’t have available.
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Oh god, I didn’t know that about beyond the pale.
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It’s cool to know linguistically why it’s called that and kind of horrifying to remember that most insults are rooted in historical trauma.
Like: palla means fence! = cool historical fact
People were assigned as barbarians and not allowed to live within the walls! = terrible historical fact
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Basket case
Running amok
Peanut gallery
It’s very weird to look into the histories of a lot of terms we have, especially idioms. I’m never sure where to invest my energy on changing speech on this sort of stuff (especially because exhausted parent =/= mindful of every turn of phrase exiting my mouth, I’m in screensaver brain mode 75% of the time minimum.) this discussion has been really interesting to follow as a result.
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I don’t think that any currently alive human is harmed by me saying beyond the pale or peanut gallery. They aren’t current slurs. Language changes over time and many once harmful words and phrases are now toothless.
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I am very conflicted in my choices and uses of many words. As I said above, I think that idiot and crazy entered their new meanings so long ago that I wouldn’t be making fun of a diagnosis or conditionif I said them.
And I used to have the right to reclaim q, n, d, s, t, four eyes and h b. But now it feels like maybe I’m losing that right, and it feels less powerful. I’m not allowed to call myself disabled.
But I also consider my impact on others and believe them when they say my words hurt, and try to pay attention to my choices. But reclaiming was something I could do that felt strong. Disallowing feels like some people are deciding for the oppressed groups - and I don’t know if these deciders are in group or an external authority. This last one scares me. But I hope I’m wrong. I hope the cool teens rewriting language are also going to change the world.
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Im a firm believer in “you can call yourself whatever the fuck you want” 
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I think the idea of reclaiming vs. using language about other groups is a good point. Because the deciders are basically never speaking for the whole of a group, no group of any size is that homogenous. People should be able to use their own terms to describe themselves.
I was very taken aback when on American Ninja Warrior one of the contestants (Nich Hanson) was called “the Eskimo Ninja”. Was it his choice or the producers? Is he reclaiming, is he pandering, is he resigned, does he care, is this just a Canadian thing? Some of those are not fine because they’re punching down/perpetuating crap. But from the outside it’s hard to tell what is going on.
I have seen some interesting people explaining that they don’t think people with my measurements should describe themselves as fat because I don’t face the same level of systemic barriers. But me saying it out loud and not in a self-judgement way was very important to me at one point. And pointing out to work that the jackets they bought did not come in a size I could wear was shocking to them because I generally don’t come across as that far off the curve (curve!).
I really appreciate everyone sharing their experiences and feelings here and being open to engaging with mine. This stuff is so hard and so connected to our identities.
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This whole conversation is fascinating. I feel similar to how you feel about a lot of this. I have mixed feelings on the whole combo of not wanting to hurt others but also supporting people who want to speak however they’d like. Part of me thinks that hurting or making others uncomfortable is inevitable if you’re an honest and genuine person, because not everyone agrees with anything and no group is a monolith. That’s a thing I’m working on: intention within myself versus focus on external response.
Summary
Another thing that doesn’t get discussed that much is discomfort vs. hurt feelings. vs. serious societal impact vs. literal violence. Like, should everyone in the world avoid causing discomfort to anyone else? Or minor hurt? Because I think that’s just not realistic with how diverse the world is becoming.
I think that avoidance prevents real honest discussion and I think this stuff does take energy from people, which is finite. I also worry that in promoting this idea, that we should all adapt language to be less painful, we are setting up the expectation in young peoples’ minds that it’s reasonable to hold people to this standard. And that if people do not conform they are committing a hateful act and want to hurt people. That, to me, is a frightening concept to believe and one that I think could have massive impact on how human beings view other human beings who might be very different than themselves.
When we see changing our language as a big step of ally ship…that concerns me because it relies on no internal work, just a public habit-shift. When we see not changing language as evidence of hatred, even if all actions of ally ship are very positive…that also concerns me because it sends the message that “what you say is more important than what you do”. And ditto this to people who seem to actually change their behavior (like the Black Teen Vogue editor who was ousted before she began her job, because she said racist stuff on Twitter a decade ago and had already apologized for it and brought it up to her bosses). Her past words were deemed more important than all the diversity work she had done since then, so she was OUT.
I also worry about the loss of the power of discomfort. Young people shouldn’t feel like all discomfort or triggers should be avoided at all costs, because discomfort = violence and is a horrible thing to suffer. Sometimes even very intense discomfort can help us grow.
An example of word-related discomfort being positive: I’ve noticed that lately lots of disabled people (usually people who become so as adults) are using the word “gimp” and “cripple” to refer to themselves. Those words are not at all in my vocabulary because…I was actually called those things. So it’s like, I just can’t refer to myself like that with any level of self-respect. When I hear or read someone using those words it’s a bit jarring! I get that kind of instant gut punch feeling like, ughhh ewww. I started to wonder why that made me so sad and angry, and here’s why: I was mad that other disabled people hadn’t had the same experiences and come to the same conclusions as I had. I was hurt that even though they were disabled they were totally disconnected from things that happen to a large part of our group OR that they had had those things happen and just didn’t take them to heart as much. There was a twinge of envy too.
BUT, when I cooled down from the shock aspect I thought: what is a more charitable way to see this? Is it possible this isn’t some callous act of bigotry? And what I came up with is that it’s actually kind of amazing that there is a class of disabled people so separated from the type of thing I went through…that they don’t even think about it. Or, that they did go through it, and are SO over it that those words mean nothing to them. That is a sign of MASSIVE progress within the community. Those terms are helping them cope and nothing more! I don’t want them to stop using those words just because I’m a bit uncomfortable or it reminds me of some crappy times or it could make some able people think it’s ok to say.
I had to come across that, feel kind of bad, then investigate those feelings. Once I investigated I felt like I could grow with it and understand it, even though I still don’t use those words myself and don’t prefer them. IDK, I think that stuff can be really tough but still valuable. I worry that if people stop seeing encountering upsetting language and ideas as opportunities the the offendedness level will continue to rise and the resilience level will continue to decrease. The assumptions too, that anyone who might disagree is just a bigot…IDK, that concerns me a bit. And allllll this stuff has nothing to do with DOING. It’s all saying or writing or sharing on social media. None of this is as important (IMO) as volunteering, donating, voting, consuming within reason, etc.
No ending to this, just rambling out some messy thoughts, lol.
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