I wanna hear your podcast! I like what you have to say so often.
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I agree! My family was very savings focused whereas my husbandās was not at all- and we fall along these background lines. I think itās definitely a thing. The problem comes when Ramit extrapolates from his experience and extends it to ALL AMERICANS, which is so wild because you can see clearly that financial health is poor here, overall- and also our country is massive and diverse.
Itās kind of like how people who grow up in super health obsessed bubbles on the coasts think the whole country is like that, and that everyone is cramming down kale salads and judging people who eat hot dogs. But where I grew up it was (and still is among some groups) pretty common to put soda in baby bottles and smoke indoors. Even super basic health info isnāt well understood there, and certainly no one is judging people for not eating organic, or whatever. Thatās not even on the cultural radar!
But yeah basically I agree with you on the why. I also think his being in a bubble of rich mostly STEM type people has something to do with it. He often mentions how āeveryoneā optimizes their money and spends hours doing spreadsheets, etc. Learning to not broadly extrapolate is something Iāve struggled with as well, which I think is why I recognize it and also why it pisses me off, haha. Donāt they say we dislike most the traits weāre afraid we have? Something like that 
Youāre too kind @Rosie my offer remains open to be a podcast host who does nothing other than show up for the show itself. So if anyone ever ones to collab with someone who only does 20% of the work, Iām in!
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OKAY! The only podcast episode I have ever listened to was the first time that Ramit went on Mad Fientist, only I didnāt know Ramit back then, and I havenāt recognized it all this time, and WHOA the pieces are all coming together. Husband found it and asked me to listen to it with him so we did and many good discussions were had.
We SO did not get his point with this concept. Or at least he didnāt explain it well in that particular episode. We walked away thinking that he just really wanted an ear catching phrase (which he repeated approx. 87 times in 40 minutes), so thatās what he settled on. It doesnāt actually seem to mean anything - heās not talking about quality, or value or anything redeeming - just literally spend it. Thatās so far from my values as a human (even if I was a billionaire I think), that I really just canāt do it.
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I twigged recently that a lot of my dadās familyās culture comes from his dad being an immigrant and started spotting the parallels to a lot of more recent immigrant families even from other cultures.
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Iām joining the conversation late once again! I had a chance to listen to the Mad Fientist episode with Ramit (As an aside, I had the chance to meet the Mad Fientist in person at a meetup once, and Iāve long been a fan of his, so I certainly wanted to catch this one!)
Anyway, it was interesting to contrast this conversation with the Get Smart with Money documentary I watched on Netflix earlier this week. I know others above in this thread also had an issue with Ramitās statement in this podcast that āwe donāt get taught how to spend, we get taught how to save.ā But it was such a stark contrast to the documentary. There was a scene in the doc where a pro football player with money issues (one of multiple people getting coached by money experts as part of the documentary) was meeting with a bunch of very young football players and his money coach to try to educate the young players about money so they could avoid the money mistakes he had made. He told the young players something like, āin this culture, weāre taught to consume, not how to save money.ā The camera panned to show the expensive shoes and jewelry the young players were wearing. I think this is exactly true of our culture in general-- we are taught to consume, not to save.
Which got me thinking. Why does Ramit keep staying stuff like āweāre not taught how to spend our money?ā I think he isnāt talking about the population in general. Heās talking specifically about his ideal customers. I donāt know if thatās an āahaā moment for anyone else, but it was for meā¦
And on a completely different thread. I also think the conversation on this podcast episode also misses that at some point there are diminishing returns on any category of spending. For example, it strikes me as entirely possible that more spending on his coffee hobby isnāt actually going to bring him more pleasure/satisfaction than he already has today. Maybe it will, but there will be a point where there are diminishing returns and an extra dollar spent wonāt provide commensurate value.
And yes @rocklobster ā I think values play a really big role in a way that wasnāt discussed. When the question was asked about how to distinguish between a purchase that will provide satisfaction and value vs. a purchase that is just about status, I donāt feel that Ramit gave an adequate answer. And I think for me the best response would have to do with your personal values and how weighing how a particular purchase will or will not meet those. So the coffee grinder is well designed, well-made, and does a better job of making coffee which is important to someone who highly values quality coffee. But if youāre trying to decide whether to buy a Rolex watch, you need to figure out what particular value that watch would be serving over another significantly less expensive watch. (Personally, I canāt even seem to come up with a value that would make a Rolex seem like anything but a status purchase, even as an exercise!)
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Brandon (the Mad Fientist) has been pretty open about how his frugality/cheapness contributed to him being quite depressed/anxious at different points in his FIRE journey.
Heās a super nice dude. Met him at Camp Mustache 2016 and really liked him
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I can kind of see the āwe donāt get taught how to spend, we get taught how to saveā thing. Though I donāt think the punchy line helps what I think he is trying to convey.
Obviously we learn how to spend. Consumerism is deeply embedded in our culture but I kind of agree that probably not many of us get much helpful instruction on how to spend. There is a lot of explicit education out there on saving, whether or not people follow it. Some of those that follow it can end up with excessively restrictive spending habits. Iāll put my hand up, Iām prone to not spending when I probably should because I prioritize saving (my journal where Iām:, āwe have a net worth of approximately $1M, āsaveā 40% of our post tax family income but havenāt had a properly working hot water system for over a yearā would probably make the grade?)
Itās also a pretty niche market, I get that. I assume there are way more people trying to put together an emergency fund and pay off debt than there are people with hundreds of thousands (millions?) to their name agonizing about buying berries or flying business classā¦
Also Iām not sure I agree with Ramitās instructions on spending because he doesnāt seem to really care about the wider environmental or social impacts of consumption which if we are teaching people to spend (consume) then the impacts of that should be part of the conversation surely.
That said, I really enjoyed listening to the millionaires agonizing about little expenses. The more recent episodes have been much harder to listen to for me.
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I guess this doesnāt have the same impact 
:
āweāre* not taught how to spend our money?ā
*Us frugal weirdos who have become super rich
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Saving has social impacts too that are almost never discussed. Generational wealth transfer is a doozy. And, yeah, logically what else is one to do with their money except give it to their kids. Iām leaning into Devilās Advocate a bit hard here. But there are technically other options, almost never brought up, than siloed generational wealth transfer.
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Todayās episode was a good one. The relationship between the couple is super side eye worthy, but Ramit didnāt even get into it. I think this was actually a super good move on his part. Scolding the relationship wouldāve been a waste of time and missing the forest for the trees. The woman is about to become a super high earner, law school grad with no student loans and a super high income position already lined up after graduation. Ramit mostly focuses on her and teaching her to be rich once she is an extremely high earner. Whether or not her relationship with the guy lasts, she needs to have money skills, forget him and his deal which doesnāt really matter. There are so many eyebrow raising moments, but the backstory is really good and I think the woman will be OK.
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Nice! Iām going to listen now while I work out 
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To be clear, my verdict is DTMFA, but thatās not the business Ramit is in
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ALL I HEAR IS 
and 
He has manipulated her into thinking she is incapable and worthless and WOW that is so sad. If it is this way with money, it is likely this way with so much more. SHE FIGURED OUT HOW TO GET T SCHOOL ON HER OWN. SHE GRADUATED FROM LAW SCHOOL. Her worst money mistake was getting into 10k of credit card debt before she was 20? NO. Her worst money mistake was choosing a partner that makes her think that getting into 10k of credit card debt is the worst sin in the world and she is therefore always going to be bad with money and a failure.
P.s. I am pregnant an emotionalā¦donāt mind my outrageous response lol
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This was an emotionally confusing episode! I feel like there were so many questions Ramit didnāt ask. On the surface it seems like the guy is controlling the money but Iām not positive if thatās the case since Ramit didnāt really ask her clarifying things like, āWHY are you afraid youāll be judged ?ā or āwhat does he say when you ask for your money?ā or ādo you have access to the savings account?ā
The reason Iām not 100% sure is because she mentioned that she sends him huge chunks of money for their shared savings without him asking for it. My husband asked me to manage all of his money too, also very early on and before we were married. He also āasksā me for money now, but he has full access to everything and I donāt at all require him to ask. He could fully just go get money out or spend on his credit card or whatever. He asks first because Iām the financial planner, just like he might ask if he can eat something (because I might have plans for it, since Iām the cook, not because Iām controlling the food, etc.).
I do wish heād asked the guy why he didnāt offer to teach her about money instead of just doing it himself. Because I could answer that question about my situation! I feel like that would have been enlightening. And also like, what is the conversation? Because when my husband āasksā if he can buy something itās like this:
Him: Think it would be cool for me to spend $100 on xyz?
Me: Sure!
Him: Should I just put it on my card?
Me: Works for me!
There is never any value judgment on my part, questioning, guilting, etc. Itās more like the way I might say, āDo you mind if I go to lunch with C tomorrow?ā Iām not really asking permission, and heās never been like, āNo, I forbid that lunch.ā Itās just like, polite, and checking in to be sure we have no other plans, etc.
I just have no sense of if heās actually being controlling or not because she also exhibited a lot of lack of confidence in other areas where she has had lots of positive external affirmation (school, jobs, gpa). So Iām thinking itās possible heās not the driver for her low self-esteem, but also that he could be. I could go either way on them.
On a purely petty superficial note he does have a mean guy look to him. But I realize thatās just my own bias, lol.
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Oh, and the other thing that ticked to me is that she seemed to have a huge block about asking for things. Iām like that too, and I feel rude asking for things and like Iāll be judged, but not because thatās happening. I experience it regardless of the other personās response because I was trained to never ask anyone for anything and then paradoxically had to because of my disability. I suspect she experiences this shame because she experiences being asked for things a lot (she was so embarrassed about her mom asking her for money) and because as a kid she had to ask for help too, which feels awful. So it makes sense that asking for something, even her own money, would make her feel that way. She doesnāt want to be an asker or the needy person, which I get. Iām amazed at people who just, ask ask ask and take take take from practically anyone. And I donāt exactly admire that trait, haha, Iāll say that. She struck me as being that way too.
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I listened to this this morning and there is so much going on. My best take is they set up an unhealthy system as an earnest try while young and dumb. And it is toxic now with maybe abuse now, probably in the future if they donāt fix it.
I really liked the way Ramit handled it. I think he stayed in his lane, and I loved him insisting that there is money in her account
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I listened today and I think youāre rightāthis could be a financially abusive situation but we donāt have enough information.
Same here. This was a pretty classic episode for his style of financial coaching. I do wish he had gone more in depth about what the heck to do with all the money theyāre going to have!
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Okay Ramit. I have two questions.
1- how is your conscious spending plan different from a budget?
2- how is your money coaching program different from a financial advisor???
Hmmmmmmmmmm???
This last episode was interesting. I think the biggest win in their follow up was getting the weekly money meetings back on the calendar for the couple.
I thought it was dumb that he said āzero out your mortgage from the fixed costsā like - come on Ramit- they will still have money to spend in there, they have to live somewhere. And it would take their fixed costs percentage down by 20%, which is cool but way less than I expected.
I think this couple could use a bit of MMM to be honest. They seem like the classic couple that can reevaluate their needs/wants from a more hardcore lens but they donāt seem like they have big huge items they can take off of their list right now (like the $55k/year private school, etc). They seem like the perfect people who could benefit from saving $5 on a latte over and over in many areas and get great results. Maybe Iām wrong there.
The biggest take away I have from the episode- it would be really hard to manage finances with one partner refusing to participate in the conversation. I think Ramit did a good job of explaining why the husband canāt just ānot think about itā and that he has to take a more active role. But the way their current conversations go can be changed too. The whole meat and potatoes on how to talk about money is a massive lesson. Talk about the current spending BUT ALSO talk about how you can use your money for you and what you want in the future so you can make a path to get there starting now. The $5 latte or the $100 subscription could get you college for kids or an earlier retirement. Those trade offs are easier to make with a big picture or goal in mind for why the trade off is worth it.
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Youāre saucy today and I like it. Listening to the latest episode now.
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These people are annoyyyyying. Or maybe Iām just crabby from pain. Perhaps both things are true. So whiny though, seriously. I would be panicking if my fixed expenses were 98% of my income. But they NEEEEED private preschool and a massive house and expensive cars. And they donāt want to make any changes!!! And they donāt want to stress over money!! And life is unfair bc other people have even mooooore!!! Wahhh wahhhh!!! Tantrums on the floor (Iām a giant bitch today, ignore me)
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