Loved your commentary!
Trying to make sense out of this couple felt like trying to pin jello to a wall.
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I knew it.
ETA: Glad everyone enjoyed my live reacts, haha. Theyâre fun when Iâm in a spicy mood aka peak judge judy aka wearing a big lounge-y maxi dress and giving no fucks.
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This surprised me the most! Expecting dinner dates paid-for is one thing IMO, but for a couple who is not living together covering a whole vacation seems like an unreasonable ask, especially when both people make so much money. I could see it if one person made $150k and the other made $30k or something, but thatâs not their situation at all. And she canât justify that with the whole feeling unromantic in the moment or being embarrassed in front of friends, because buying plane tickets and hotel accommodations is pretty unromantic no matter what and no one even knows who paid for that stuff.
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I think Ramitâs point about never having any consequences for her spending was a good one. She got a credit card in HS and never had to pay the bill. I think her expectation is that someone else - her father, her husband or boyfriend, anyone - will always insulate her from the consequences of her spending decisions and basically, she should never have to pay or take responsibility for anything.
This is one couple Iâm less interested in hearing a one year update from. I canât really say why but I found the whole episode somewhat confusing or unrelatable. Before I could digest one weird thing, the next weird thing was coming down the pike. Like the guy has had this big credit card debt for four years and doesnât have any clue what to do about it. This isnât rocket science dude, just about anything is better than what youâre doing right now. I kind of wish Ramit had gone over his income and expenses. Heâs earning $12K a month, is paying the minimum on his debt - where is that money going? Not on dinners taking her out! Not on paying down his debt! So, what is he doing with it? It doesnât make sense to me. Same with her. Sheâs earning almost as much and seems to have no idea where her money is going either.
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really I just want to know all of the titles that @allhat holds. I think you have a hidden PHD in there somewhere.
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I feel like Ramit had a niche audience that he was doing a really great job representing and helping - people who have done a great job saving their money but still live in scarcity mindsets and need help learning how to spend their money without stress. It is really pissing me off that he is trying to adjust and widen his audience to people that he really does not understand or have business talking to about this kind of stuff. There are 1000 other podcasts that people outside of his niche would find immensely more useful.
With that said - @AllHatâs commentary is making this so much better. I also learn so much more from the feedback you all offer.
I think I have gotten all of the usefulness from this podcast that I will. I have found a better way to âlive my rich lifeâ and start to look at money a bit differently. I am more excited about our money conversations every month looking forward to something rather than just compiling numbers. I am spending less money on things I donât care about and spending more on things that I do.
I have been on a super interesting money journey - from saving everything, becoming a strong MMM follower and judgemental asshole, joining OMD and leaving MMM becoming less of a judgey asshole, and now this podcast (like the first 10 episodes), I think I have a much more well rounded view on my feelings around finances. And that includes being less stressed around the topic of saving and spending. It has been fun and I know will go through more evolutions in the future.
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I kind of feel for Ramit (and other creators actually) because I feel like when he was only focusing on super rich people and the rich life stuff he got a lot of feedback that he was out of touch and needed to talk to more âregularâ people (I said it here, even, and I have totally changed my mind!).
Why I think I was totally wrong
BecauseâŚheâs not a regular joe, heâs a super rich guy with rich guy principles and references, so him talking to actual middle class people (which IMO he hasnât yet, lol) is a disaster.
I realize now that I see this in other areas too, especially in athletics stuff, like where an able bodied athlete who has a podcast on climbing (just a random example) is being pressured to make caveats about ability level and speak to things that they actually have no business talking about because they have no experience or knowledge of it. Like theyâll get reamed for saying general things like, âweight lifting is important for everyone!â or âthis couch to 5k program can totally work for you, donât be intimidated, you can do it!â and then people get all pissed off (or IMO more likely they get a dopamine hit from calling the person out) like âBUT NOT EVERYONE CAN LIFT WEIGHTS! WHAT ABOUT PPL WITHOUT ARMS?!â like itâs some gotcha moment? But it feels super gross and rarely seems to come from the actual in-group?
And then the creator kind of has to address it or theyâre and even bigger jerk? So then they have to start being actively insulting via the prejudice of low expectations (IMO) like, âhereâs some running advice but of course it might not work if you are not also a privileged able bodied cis middle class white person who has a safe neighborhood to run in and money for shoes and free time in which to run and the inclination to run and health insurance and and and and andâ and itâs likeâŚewwwww. No, plz. Thatâs so much worse than just speaking from your own experience, lol. Itâs like, super paternalistic and gross IMO.
Because like, I am an adult and capable of understanding that advice in a column or podcast is just one personâs opinion and not a literal mandate? That seems obvious? And of course nothing applies to literally every person on the planet? And in the case of disability stuff it just boils down to able people reiterating stuff they think disabled people canât possibly do, which is bananas since itâs a super diverse group in itself and assumptions that we canât do anything are likeâŚpart of the reason ableism exists. It just ends up feeling like someone with all the advantages in life actively telling you how easy it is for them, and how impossible they assume it will be for you? Like Ramit with his âunsophisticated peopleâ stuff and mentioning how people canât help but be in debt if theyâre around other âunsophisticated peopleâ in debt because itâs all conditioning, etc. He only started saying that after backlash about talking to rich people only. And many of us have noted that the way he talks about these âunsophisticated peopleâ isâŚpretty insulting, like itâs worse than when he just wasnât talking about them at all.
The sports thing is just an example Iâve been noticing for a while since able people suddenly talking about ableism out of nowhere is obviously something I notice, but I didnât really connect it to a larger trend, which I am totally guilty of in other areas! I think it does feel good to gotcha someone, to an extent, but itâs cheap and destructive. And now itâs almost like everyone with a platform is expected to caveat every experience and be all things to all people? And if they donât attempt that the assumption is that they are basically an asshole? But then when they do attempt it, itâs often double terrible because humans only have limited experiences and itâs justâŚnot great to speak on behalf of other groups? IDK.
I think my takeaway is mostly that my new feeling is: itâs ok to just talk about what relates to you and people like you and your own experience. Iâll def keep listening to Ramit because I find his show entertaining and live reacting is randomly very fun 
and I do it all in good spirit. Iâm sure Ramitâs a super nice guy in person, I just likes my snarks. 
(And yes, I have many credentials. Several PhDs for sure, and Iâm also a certified Avon lady. In a pinch I can also balance your humours. )
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Yes that is definitely a trend Iâve seen! And honestly, also when creators are asked to talk about X current event and theyâre like âIâm sorry, that is out of my area of expertiseâ and they get SLAMMED but like⌠I actually have a lot of respect for people who are clear on their professional boundaries and know who their audience is? Because it can still be in your field but ALSO out of your area.
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Iâve stopped listening so much since he switched it up. I wonder what his listener stats are telling him about the change?
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i agree so much with all of this. i feel like it is useful for people who are speaking to and for people like them is to be aware of it, and to be explicit about it, because lots of times people who say stuff like âeveryone can lift weightsâ or âeveryone can make their body look the way they want it toâ are using âeveryoneâ as shorthand for âpeople like meâ or âable-bodied young peopleâ and they really just donât think about people who canât lift weights, or they think that people who canât make their body look a certain way just arenât trying or something.
i for one appreciate when people acknowledge or at least think about who they mean when they say everyone. but it doesnât have to be a full disclaimer in every sentence 
they could just say âlots of peopleâ and achieve the same basic level of
accuracy.
my pet peeve is when people dole out advice like âif i can get this ripped, everyone can!â like lol ok mr 22 year old upper middle class white dude with hours to devote to the gym every day, sure, sure. iâm sure your program will work great on my 49 year old scoliosis body.
not that i couldnât learn anything from this dude ⌠but i will have likely tuned him out because of the lack of acknowledgment of the position he is in that allows him to achieve so much.
itâs like when i read cal newportâs books on deep work â i pick up some good tips but honestly a lot of them boil down to âmake sure you have a hard-working wife or staff that can take care of your non-deep work tasks.â and iâm like thatâs cool but please just acknowledge it!
all that is to say â i agree that ramit is much more useful when he focuses on people like him, and it would be great to hear him acknowledge his limited usefulness in other niches.
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I get what youâre saying re: âeveryone canâ That just doesnât bother me!
Ramblin' AllHat
I honestly never even thought about it until the last few years when people started talking about it as default ableism/racism/etc. (MMM was the first time I heard people saying that criticism, like his whole everyone should be biking thing as ableism), but I hear that (people being offended I mean) mostly externally and not at all IRL. I suppose I see that phrasing as a more upbeat encouraging and inclusive thing? And also a little humble, like, âIâm not some perfect person, I have weaknesses too and I can do it, so you can do it!â A slight exaggeration in order to encourage people who (unlike me, lol) might be terrified to try new stuff, or to fail or be a beginner, or have really low confidence about starting things, or assume they canât possibly do it because of some trait, etc.
That âeveryoneâ language makes me feel excited and can-do if itâs something that does apply to me and I just naturally skip over it if I know itâs outside my range. I also donât believe changing the language would change the attitude towards people with genuine obstacle in a positive wayâŚlike I donât think it would force the person to think about the âotherâ in a way thatâs good at all, just in a way thatâs associated with things they cannot do. But I appreciate your perspective, I think a lot of people feel that way and I understand the sentiment. I feel like Iâve read/heard about it a lot in the HAES-sphere and how it can be really hurtful and alienating to a lot of people (especially with fitness stuff, which is honestly probably the worst offender for a lot of things anyway). I know it makes some people feel invisible or pushed out farther, etc. I do think representation is super important, so itâs not only one voice talking all the time, in terms of race/income/ability/nationality/orientation/etc. and I think that has a lot of value- and seems to be getting better, bit by bit! Like I never used to see a picture of anyone disabled literally anywhere and now I occasionally see a wheelchair user or amputee in ads- I definitely notice it!
IDK if my totally unbothered reaction to verbal generalization is automatic adaptation on my part to an extent, like because Iâm so used to not being part of the âeveryoneâ on some level? I donât remember ever being the norm so I donât expect to be the average represented person in any group because I know Iâm not the default. Like even among queer childless women in my age cohort, country, same race, income, etc. Iâm still not represented as the norm. And I also used to write SEO bullshit headlines that got run through all those scoring things, lol, so I think that has a lot to do with how seriously I take phrasing like that too.
They could easily say âlots of peopleâ but I guess it takes some of the punch out of it. Imagining the self-help titles that would produce is pretty funny, haha! Way more honest probably! The fitness/food industry is rife with full on lies too, though. Like, that bothers me a whole lot because it genuinely tricks and confuses people. I see so many fake workouts or bs cleanses and stuff online where the people have obviously just had cosmetic surgery or are taking steroids. Thatâs immoral IMO because itâs a literal straight-up lie; no one will get the results they are hawking.
Acknowledging why we are each able to achieve what we are like in the book you mentioned (unfair advantages, essentially) or with Ramit is like a whole other can of worms IMO. I see that as very separate, and I have a lot of opinions on the value of thinking in terms of privilege vs. gratitude and other vs. self and up vs. down. That plus the expectation of others to acknowledge their own unfair advantages, but I understand my thinking in that arena is pretty individualistic and based in other spiritual beliefs.
ETA: Also can I just say that I so appreciate these types of conversations? Really gets my old nogginâ going. Bunch of smarties over hereâŚ
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I think Ramit made a really big pivot. He started with people who had a lot of money but were uncomfortable spending it. Heâs pivoted to people who have no trouble spending money they donât have (usually on trucks 
and other things that drive him nuts) and wind up with a lot of debt. He might do well to seek out a middle ground between these two extremes.
For example, I think weâve all read stories on the other site by someone who is on fire about FIRE and saving to get there, and a spouse who is not on board at all. I remember one spouse who couldnât understand why they would want to live in poverty to retire and continue to live in poverty. One spouse may be FIRE and the other may be FOMO.
Another area is working with couples who are struggling with the transition to retirement. I canât remember the name of the site, but there was a man wrote very honestly about how FIRE affected his relationship and led to their divorce. Other couples find that FIRE does not solve all of their problems and they end up re-evaluating, perhaps going back to work or making other changes. Couples navigating lean FIRE face a different set of challenges. These people might be more âsophisticatedâ with money but still acting out invisible scripts, etc. and may be easier for him to relate to.
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This is the post I referenced above. Itâs a long one and covers more than his divorce.
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Iâm listening to episode 36 while working and less than 5 minutes in Ramit makes a big mistake and it has super annoyed me. The couple both have student loans from PT school and they are talking about how at the end of their program previous students came in and talked about how they paid off their student loans. One woman said she put 100% of her salary toward the loans and her family lived off her husbandâs salary. Then a minute later Ramit cuts in to recap things for the listener and says âone woman had her husband pay it offâ NO SHE DIDNâT! Choosing to structure your familyâs finances so one personâs income pays off debt and the otherâs pays for the familyâs living expenses is NOT âthe husband paid off the debt.â For all we know, the PT wifeâs salary might have been higher than the husbandâs!
For some reason this really touched a nerve this morning. Iâm tempted to not listen any further but I know I will.
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Aside from being super annoyed at the most recent couple while skimming the transcripts, one thing that Ramit said really resonated with me. I think he said there are different seasons of spending in oneâs life, and thatâs going to evolve and change. I see that happening in my own life! I think before, I was much more âvalue for moneyâ focused but now Iâm willing to spend more for great experiences and comfort and convenience. I think I could have eased up a while back but itâs only now that I feel confident that I can do all this and that Iâm not sacrificing my future for it.
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Semi related
One thing Iâve learned since quitting work is that thereâs a weird brand of vitriol directed at people who âdonât financially contributeâ in either reality or in the imagination of others. Mostly, I see it from working women directed towards nonworking women but the tech/chronically online bro sphere is also rife with it towards women, maybe because some of them are likeâŚred pill adjacent and terrified of stuff like divorce and think all women just want their money? IDK.
Itâs really weird and kind of hilarious in its wildly inconsistent application regardless of the source. Like theyâll rage in one second about the idea of a not contributing spouse (or concern troll/condescend) and then in the next breath the same people will mention how they totally respect the hard working people they pay to clean their houses, make/deliver their food, watch their kids, do their laundry, etc.
Itâs likeâŚwhaaaa? How do you hold both of these thoughts in your head at once?!
I know this is only semi-related since the woman in this podcast was actually working full-time, but I think it speaks to the extreme sensitivity people have towards this whole issue of ânot contributingâ financially. I imagine house-husbands get a weird alternate version of it as well. Itâs really interesting to me when this sentiment comes up in spheres that claim to value community/collectivism, which is surprisingly often!
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Episode 36 (Sarah & Nat) - the best part of this episode is the follow-up emails, most of which were not read on air. By the end of the episode I wondered if Ramit and this couple had made any progress. The follow-up email indicated a lot more progress than I anticipated from listening to the episode.
To get the follow-ups you have to give them your email address. I unsubscribed almost immediately because I think I was getting several emails a day - way more than the one a week I was willing to tolerate.
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Iâm sick in bed so here we go with live reacting to Episode 36. Strap on your snark pants!
IHTM: I got sick and stayed a snarky b
Episode title indicates these people make $145k a year and have $828k in debt which makes me feel a lot better about the $50 foundation I just splurge-purchased. Title also indicates they feel âparalyzedâ by the massive amount of debt they decided to take on. Of all the people Ramit meets in financial crisis veterinarians and physical therapists are in the worst situation bc of their student debt, says he.
Woman says after you graduate from PT school they give you an envelope with âyour numberâ in it, and it tells you your debt. Hers was $175k. They had no jobs and both graduated at the same time. She says they also have a panel that tells the new grads how they themselves manage their debt. She says it would have been helpful to know all this before getting the envelope of debt and also mentions that it hurt extra since she graduated from a âvery prestigiousâ medical school. Biased Against This Elitist Academia Attitude AllHat wonders why she was smart enough for the hardest school and program ever but had no understanding at all that sheâd be charged money for her education. Iâm saltier than layâs today, yâall! Lookout!
Guy says he didnât have this experience of shock or dread at all after graduating. He thought it was to be expected and that it would suck. He says he hasnât been happy about the debt, and has more than her, but it doesnât feel as heavy to him as it does to her.
Also this all took place 10 years ago and their debt has only increased since then. Ramit mentions how unfair it is that it was at the end of the program that the school went over how much debt theyâd have and not the beginning. Itâs almost like educational institutions arenât bastions of pure good. Cray.
Woman says when she was considering school she thought it sounded like a lot of debt but she trusted that the school knew what a PT would make, and figured they were looking out for their grads and wouldnât put them in a bad position. She also says she didnât understand money at all at the time, and just trusted the institution/establishment. She says if sheâd known about the debt (I think she means if she had internalized and understood it) she might have gone to an in state school, lived at home those years, etc. and she now shares that with PT students she comes into contact with. Ethicist AllHat gives her a gold star for that.
Man knew in relative terms what he was facing after school, but thought it would be worth it since he wanted to pursue his dreams. He knew it would be hard. If he looked back though he says he wouldnât take it on. He didnât consider âwhat it would do to someone elseâ and his parents didnât teach him about money. Oh he means his marriage, he says he had no idea the impact it would have on his marriage and that he wouldnât have done this if he could go back. He sounds like heâs near tears and itâs pretty sad. 
You can feel the desperation in his voice.
Ramit wants us to listen to clues about why they made their career decisions. Heâs talking predatory student loans I think. He wants us to think about how many of us make big money decisions without weighing the implications. Ramit hates hearing the regret in their voices.
Sarah (the woman) says they even considered not having a second kid because of the debt. She says this was especially hard to think about since âthe whole point I went into PT was so I could have a familyâ and in the end they did have a second child. She says now she feels like sheâs drowning because the cost of childcare is more than she makes most months. It feels like theyâve had to give up some of their lifestyle dreams. She doesnât know what the way out is. Theyâre just surviving. Outdated Movie Quote AllHat says, âI do not think that means what you think it means.â
Ramit asks what other PTs are doing about this situation. Great question which I was also wondering. She says some of her friends have paid it off, but she assumes they put most of their salary towards their debt because their spouse was in a ânicer position jobâ, but she caveats that this is her assumption and she doesnât actually know their financial picture. She also says she doesnât blame her husband for not being better off but she says he blames himself. She says they got there together. They do know another couple who are both PTs, and their debt was double this couple talking, but she said the guy worked two jobs and does âcash pay PTâ which theyâve considered but not done themselves. She said theyâre the only ones she knows of who made enough more to pay off debt. She also mentions how some people are wealthier and their parents paid for their grad school.
Guy says the PTs he know fall into three categories: only one PT in the family and the other person makes a lot of money (lol, like both of these people already make a lot of money but ONLY COMPARE UPWARD is like the rule of law or something), one person is ok with being super aggressive about paying it down (working 100 hours a week) but the other person doesnât have debt, people just eat the debt and kick the can down the road. He says he doesnât think thereâs another option and that the cost of PT school is absurd. I agree on that count. He makes $102k and she makes $42k, she says the most sheâs made is $70k without benefits (wtf?!).
Is this podcast just to talk people out of being PTs now? Because itâs working. Iâm def not going to PT school now.
She says she does most of the childcare, youngest kiddo is 6 months old. She says she struggles with her job and what to do with it since itâs not enough money. OMG sheâs been there for 10 years?! Sidenote Entrepreneur AllHat wonders why these people donât try to work for themselves?! Maybe thatâs not a good gig either, IDK, but it seems nutso to me to work so long at one place and have a huge following and make like $42k a year. Sheâs mentioning considering a cash pay business. Talking about how insurance is the reason PTs are paid so poorly. Hard agree. Letâs also talk about the artificial shortage of doctors caused by the profession itself mandating very few licenses a year.
He hates his current job. She likes her job. Itâs either job you like with little money or job you hate with lots of money. Itâs really weird to me that neither of them have considered working in a different field?
Ramit thinks they seem trapped and talk only in PT type terms. Sudden Ramit Fangirl AllHat agrees. Ramit says the student loan forgiveness program also has an aspect that PARALYZES them. They are totes paralyzed guys. (Iâm just funninâ â it doesnât really offend me when people say this I just think itâs funny bc people are offended by equally benign turns of phrase which obviously have alternate meanings in context. - Parenthetical AllHat).
Ah, I guess you have to pay taxes on the student loan forgiveness? Thatâs the other thing thatâs upsetting them, wait is this for real? If so thatâs super fucked up. Ok so you pay $1500 a month (IDK if thatâs total or per person) for 25 years the debt is forgiven, theoretically. The catch is the amount forgiven might be taxable. WTF?! Government Watchdog AllHat thinks this sounds real fucking scammy. For this couple the taxable amount would be like $200k?!?!? WHY DOES THIS PROGRAM EXIST? I wonder if this is why they arenât looking at switching fields? Because they have to be PTs to qualify or something?
Man says the program is new so a lot is unclear about how this will actually work (since I guess it hasnât been around long). He says maybe the plan will be to refinance the house or get another payment plan from the government for that loan. Basically they donât know because theyâre an early cohort. Ramit wants to play out the worst case scenario that this all happens (including the taxable bill). I think he wants them to admit they wouldnât end up totally demolished or something? Both halves of the couple have no idea what would happen. They feel overwhelmed and like it will never end.
Ramit is pointing out that they havenât thought about this, but have only worried about it. I agree. They have no idea what their options are. Ramit says this is super common because most people are problem oriented. Fangirl AllHat agrees. Am I going to start wanting to invest in crypto next? WILL I BUY THOSE STUPID TOE RUNNING SHOES? Send help IDK whatâs happening to me. Ramit also points out that they will make more money in the future and basically would be âokâ if they did have to pay off the interest amount.
Ramit is now pointing out how they were kind of shepherded through this whole education decision, how insurance makes their salaries low. How they need work for benefits which is crazy and âonly in Americaâ Disability Advocate AllHat strongly disagrees. Ramit points out they chose to work these jobs for certain reasons, chosen to live where they do, etc. IDK where heâs going with thisâŚok he says they need to figure out what to do personally since they canât change the system. They are deep in the system. Ramit asks if they WANT to change. He says itâs a profound question since their current behavior shows they have not changed in the last 10 years. Now Ramitâs talking to us about student loans argumentsâŚitâs more complicated than two sides, he says. Some predatory lending stuff and how 18 year olds canât understand the scope of loans, etc.
Ramit says covid made childcare harderâŚinterlocking things make change hard. Ramit and his wife learned to eat in a healthy way? IDK how this is related. Ah, they wish food choices were just a little easier, like money. He wishes money was a little easier. Still personal responsibility, yes, but also should be easier systemically. He says system needs to be better, but shouldnât this couple also be responsible? This is kind of an interesting talking point. I basically agree. These are not diametrically opposed ideas despite often being presented as such.
Ramit asks what theyâd be willing to do to change the situation, the guy instantly says âanything.â ONLY FANS HERE HE COMES! Jk, but that would be a hilarious twist-recommendation, right?
Guy is talking about asking Sarahâs parents for money, she is talking about going to a cash-business. But she feels like her job is so great in terms of the practice itself so she doesnât want to leave.
Side-note: Disabled AllHat is super curious why they are so anti self-pay PT? IME the pay models are often the same price as going through insurance or only slightly more per-session, and are wayyyyyy better for permanently disabled people since you decide how much PT you need and you just, schedule it. You donât get kicked out for not magically becoming able or not having an acute injury/surgery rehab. Iâve also gotten way better PT pros through pay options, and Iâve done a lot of both. Obviously it is not feasible for everyone to self pay (neither is insurance covered PT, though, and even insurance rarely covers more than like 6 sessions) but it is weird to me how they categorically rule out self-pay like itâsâŚnefarious? Or something? Anyway, stop distracting me you guys!!!
Ok we are finally talking money. $828k debt is mortgage, home equity credit, car lease (Hyundai Elantra). They contribute $12k-$15k to investments a year. Ramit asks the guy to guess what theyâll have in 15 years. Guy guesses $400k-$500k, Ramit says currently theyâll have $780k if they only contribute $15k a year and never more. Both halves of couple agree the amount they contribute will actually be higher, like $25k. IDK what this is based on, I think her going back to full-time work? OH WAIT. Iâm sorry, the $40kish salary she complains about is PART TIME? Ok, well that makes more sense, lmao. Ramit says at $25k a year in 15 years theyâll have a million in investments, and if they let that sit in 5 years it turns into 1.6 million. I am pretty fucking impressed with how fast Ramit is with these numbers. Is he able to do this shit in his head? Swoons. Jk. Or not. I donât even know anymore.
Ramit is trying to get them to understand they arenât actually barely surviving. Rather, that they will be millionaires with a paid off house in all likelihood by the time they have to pay off the loan forgiveness interest. She sort of agrees but instantly changes the goal post to wanting a bigger emergency fund. She also says because of past emergencies theyâve âhad toâ take on more debt. And thatâs with her parents giving them thousands of dollars in the last several months. She says all thatâs liquid rn is $10k.
Weâve got a goal post changer, people! Ramit is pointing out how sheâs reveling in how bad she feels despite all this ostensibly great news that they are not in fact âsurvivingâ but actually pretty privileged and destined to be rich. HARD AGREE. Ramitâs asking if they have ever felt good about money. She keeps talking about how angry she is about the cost of her education, especially if she has to do a job she canât stand. She chose PT because of work-life balance and thatâs whatâs hard about it.
OKâŚhahaha, there is literally a dissonant violin sound under Ramitâs voice right now. Iâm dying. Heâs trying to be empathetic but likeâŚI think itâs stretching even Ramit at this point. He agrees he wishes it was all easier for them. That benefits werenât tied to a job, childcare was easier, etc. But there isnât, SO, you have to make a decision on what to do, RAMIT SAYS SO. These people are grating on my last nerve yâall. They do realize everyone has problems in life, right? Like, do they realize that most people arenât totally elated every single day going to work? And that a lot of them make a whole lot less money and work a whole lot more than they do? And end up in just as crushing of debt from like, not having health insurance and falling off a roof or some shit, and not from choosing to go to a fancy out-of-state school? Theyâve got me right on the edge (any Spaghetti Western fans? No? Ok.).
Her goal is for their emergency plan to not be her rich parents. Ramit says ok, letâs do it! Heâs really trying to amp her up and it is not working. She wants 3 months salary e-fund, which is $30k. She says thatâll make her feel like she doesnât have to ask her parents for money. Ramit points out theyâre already 1/3 there. Sarah is still bummed out and says she has to make more money to achieve this. Ramit says even if she doesnât theyâll hit that goal in 20 months. How does that make her feel? Itâs not fast enough. Finally, Ramit asks what if she worked outside of PT. That would also make her sad. Nothing is good, everything is terrible. She hasnât thought about non-PT jobs because she excels at working with patients. Skeptic AllHat wants to see receipts because her attitude totally sucks andâŚfrankly, Iâve listened to a lot of PTs complain/vent to me about their hard lives while Iâm literally in the middle of undergoing extremely painful therapy which Iâll have to do for the rest of my life. They also usually think we have a great connection.
They are both still basically downtrodden and donât seem to feel any differently. I feel like we hear more from Sarah than the guy in this so thatâs why Iâm focusing on her more. Ramit is pushing her towards her own practice but sheâs pushing back hurrrrd. I want to throw Ramit one of those boat donuts and save him from sinking. Heâs trying desperately to try and get them solution-oriented. She interrupts Ramit and says she has to go to do some childcare because the kids are up and theyâre over their time limit. She sounds pretty pissed off to me.
Now Ramit is talking to us about invisible pressures, how we arenât robots, etc. The takeaway is that itâs hard to change. He says itâs great she showed up, because she wants to change (Skeptic AllHat disagrees), but that itâs hard. She curtly says THANK YOU SO MUCH. Ramit is pretty sure 30 more minutes would have given them some tangible next-steps. Skeptic AllHat vehemently disagrees.
Oh, thereâs an update letter which I think JRA mentioned upthread. The guys says he was shocked at how both he and his wife hardly responded to Ramit when he showed them how their loan repayoff wasnât actually as devastating as they thought. Husband said it made him incredibly sad. It made me sad too, tbh. He says he thinks theyâve gotten so numb and hopeless and didnât realize it was coloring the dynamic of their marriage. Now he wants to educate himself on their actual options. Sarah says she started digging into other job opportunities and was surprised when Ramit asked if she would do something other than PT. Ramit says in the rest of the letter they say all the stuff theyâre going to do but we have to get that by giving Ramit our email and I donât wanna.
Whew. That was personally agonizing, but I have to give Ramit major props for sheer effort. 10/10 for Ramit.
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Iâm confused about how they got to 828k in debt. Her student loans were 175k, how much were his? Did they also have undergrad loans? Itâs there a mortgage included in that number?
Also, spoiler request
Can you please spoiler phrases like âdivorce (blank)â from your previous post?
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Changed it to just divorce and deleted the part afterwards about how thatâs the phrase they use.
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