I also really liked this episode. “one week at a time” - and then their goals weren’t at all anything that would require a billion dollars, just like, game night with friends, dinner out, that sort of thing.
It also really made me ponder what creates that feeling of being able to “spend generously” or abundantly for the lower-earning partner. I liked the way their dynamic shifted when they started with the vision instead of the budget numbers.
It was a relief to have a less dysfunctional couple this time!
I just listened to the latest episode and I liked it! I agree he is improving his interviewing skills and I think the couple was just…more likable than some of the others, haha. I thought it was interesting that the husband’s explanation for not paying someone to clean was because he hates the idea of someone being compelled to do something they don’t want to do. But he was ok with his wife (and himself) forcing themselves to do things they didn’t want, or even have to do.
I’ve never had a house cleaner and it did get me thinking about what income level I’d consider paying for it. I’m curious what other people’s numbers/ideas on this are because I don’t really know! I mean at $200k (what the couple made) definitely, but I don’t feel that way at $100k, maybe I will at $150k? I don’t know!
I earn $0 a year so I think I qualify, haha. One thing that makes me feel good about spending generously is that I manage all of our finances (and always have). So I feel like our net worth is something I really made happen, and I contributed a lot in $ when I was working. It genuinely doesn’t feel to me like I’m spending “my husband’s” money when I buy things. I feel like it’s 100% mine as much as his, just like he’s entitled to all the food I make. I think maybe that’s part of the equation? Feeling ownership over the money? I don’t think I’d feel the same way if I weren’t the money manager. Like if I want to move money, we do. I feel like I have a lot of power over our finances.
I started having a house cleaner when we went to $225k a year, but that was sort of a coincidence about when we felt ok with it from a COVID POV. We fought about it so much when we moved in together I would have shelled out then (at combined $75k). It’s definitely a very affordable luxury now though, where as before I would have had to cut a different budget or savings line to pay for it.
I had it in my 2020 budget to hire a house cleaner because I was working three jobs (one full-time). My income was ~$63K that year between three jobs. So me it was less of an income thing but more of a time thing.
I had a really clear and direct “value of your time” situation when I started using a house cleaner. I was working a full time librarian job, training for a full ironman (which takes up a lot of time), doing my portion of the regular cooking/cleaning/laundry stuff, and doing occasional evening babysitting. The family I babysat for asked if I could start coming for a couple hours in the morning twice a week. There was no way I could add anything more to my plate without completely burning myself out. BUT, I enjoyed babysitting a lot more than I enjoyed cleaning, so I said yes to the extra babysitting hours and the money I made from that was enough to cover having a cleaner come every other week. One of the best swaps I ever made!
My partner and I live together but keep separate finances. When we first started using the cleaner we split the cost 50/50, but after I started making more money I started paying for it all. Before we got the cleaner we didn’t fight about cleaning exactly, but there was definitely some resentment on both sides as we each thought the other person wasn’t pulling their weight. When we got the cleaner I was making around $40,000/yr and Howie was making around $150,000. Now I’m making around $75,000 and Howie is making around $200,000.
I don’t know that I’d continue having a cleaner if I lived alone. Maybe I’d go down to once a month or something. One of the greatest things I’ve noticed is that the WHOLE house is clean at once. When I clean on my own I’d spread it out - bathrooms one day, kitchen one day, vacuum one day, etc. When I come home after the cleaners have been there, everything is clean at the same time and it’s magical.
My executive function is so poor I’d pay for a housecleaner occasionally at $50k living alone and no pets/kids to clean up after (student loans won’t let that happen, just a dream). I’m very pro housecleaning, if you “need” it you need it. I am definitely a privileged person but come from a low enough class background that I don’t even feel weird about the dynamics (multiple people in my family have cleaned houses/janitorial) you’re giving someone a paycheck so just pay fairly. Sorry if this is a weirdly self centered diversion just chiming in that at $100k there is a 100% chance I personally would hire a housecleaner, although I totally understand the not needing it thing. I don’t think it’s about being rich/wealthy whatever at all. Like, I’d think a single parent with a demanding job and a few kids definitely needs a housekeeper, and if I could imagine myself in a situation like that I personally (living in an area with transit) would forgo the costs of owning a car to pay for a clean house even though owning a moderately priced vehicle is not seen as rich, but hiring cleaners is seen as “rich”
I think our income is around 140, but supporting a toddler and housing two more adults. We have talked about the cleaner off and on, and I think we will sign up for a few months this summer. I don’t think that things are at the point right now where it makes a big enough difference. I need a daily tidier or dishwashing assistant. And those are harder to hire. We are outsourcing lots of tasks like grocery delivery right now. And I want to do a few months of lawn mowing as well
Yesssss I adore this! Whenever I try to clean my house myself I tidy and vacuum one room, then say I’ll vacuum the others and wash all the floors at once. But by the time I’ve tidied and vacuumed all the other rooms (aka the end of the week) the first one is dirty again and I just start the process over again.
I started hiring out the cleaning when I wasn’t able to it myself, and the burden of all the cleaning and most of the cooking was too much for the kids. Now they clean their spaces and cook 2x a week each, and I do or pay for everything else. I think for me its figuring out the limits of what people can do sustainably, then filling the gaps with outside help.
Ah, yeah, the “ownership” piece makes a lot of sense! Thanks. Up til last year I was both the high earner and the one doing actual number crunching / planning, even though we keep separate accounts. I got my partner set up with a spreadsheet report thingy and I do think it really helped - it meant that they could make many more judgments on their own, more confidently.
Hiring a cleaner when I was living alone was 1000% worth it. For me it was a disability thing, but even if I was able to clean I would probably do it again. That feeling of everything being clean at once! The pressure to actually tidy things so they’re at least out of the way! Magical. The first time I came home to a completely clean apartment I actually cried because it felt so nice.
Every time I see the mention of a billion dollars I crack up. It’s not even like goal of $5 million or goal of $10 million, it’s GOAL OF $1000 MILLION. I read the transcript and didn’t listen in, but I could totally see Ramit rolling his eyes
When we lived in China our helpers (“aunties” or ayis) did everything: childcare for pre-school kids when we weren’t home or needed to go out, and cooking and cleaning (including doing the laundry) when we were. It was like having an extra parent in the house. SO WORTH IT when you are a dual income couple. But now that I am FIREd I don’t think it would be worth it to me. Unless you have somebody who comes regularly enough that it is part of your daily or weekly routine, and even if they do, you almost always have to clean up – or at least tidy up – a bit in order to have things ready for the cleaner. Even if you give them detailed instructions, they probably aren’t going to do things exactly like you would, or they will miss little details that are important to you, or whatever. i know, I am totally privileged with both time and money but I guess what I am trying to say is that I am rich enough that I could afford to have other people do much of my household work for me but I don’t really want to at this stage in my life. I mean, I was kind of annoyed that once again I was the only adult i the household to notice the red mildew film building up on the dish rack and so I once again was the person who cleaned it. But I was also very satisfied to see it so clean.
And now that I wrote that out I just had the mind-blowing realization that I now have a working dishwasher and next time I see that red film building up I can PUT THE WHOLE DISH RACK IN THE DISHWASHER and that will probably clean it better and ensure the film doesn’t come back as quickly! Mind blown…
Oh, I also don’t love housecleaning but I don’t mind it, nor do I mind doing most other household chores like grocery shopping, meal prep, etc. If I ever really need to earn more money for some reason and am still physically and mentally fit, I have the thought that I could be a PT household manager for somebody and be pretty happy doing that.
We got cleaners in once a fortnight when I finally caved and our house was getting towards non-habitable levels of filth because we couldn’t keep up due to life circumstances (1 child in part-time care, knowing I’d be incapacitated by pregnancy, 1.5 jobs between us, my fatigue not dealt with). Income was above $150AUD which meant we didn’t have to adjust spending, we just save less.
My concerns were about underpaying people, so we’ve stuck with the same company through price increases and I didn’t hire the cheapest or someone working on their own. I also had a thing about how it was my mess, so I should be the one cleaning it up. I also knew I’d be the one tidying and our house has always been an erratic cluttered mess, so there’s always a lot of tidying well before we get to the cleaning, and I hated our quarterly rent inspections so it felt like we would suddenly be having those fortnightly. It’s better because I only have to tidy and someone else does the cleaning and my best wasn’t as good as their mediocre.
TLDR: hiring a cleaner was emotionally hard but overall good and I’d prefer one every 2 months but right now our household needs it every 2 weeks, and we can afford, so we do.
I enjoy cleaning. I very much enjoy putting on a podcast and spending some time zoned out and cleaning. We had been at $250k+ for quite a while without considering hiring someone.
But - we hired a house cleaner once my toddler started daycare. I really needed help basically once the baby came, but with COVID it didn’t seem safe or practical.
Once we started daycare and the house was empty most weekdays, I hired somebody to come by every 3 weeks to clean the bathrooms and mop the floors. We still have to do “deep cleaning” like fully degreasing the stove and vent hood ourselves, but I take a vacation day from work to do that (~2X a year I’m thinking). So for us, as high earners, it was always about time rather than money. We still have lots of day to day cleaning to do, but at least the bathrooms and the floors get cleaned regularly instead of not at all.
I have a cleaning lady who works for herself, and charges me $130 per time. We coordinate everything by text, and she’s flexible about rescheduling when somebody in my house is sick, which is a big reason I hired her.
I’ve been intermittently reading transcripts and on episode 4 -
Summary
The guy cancelled their health insurance???
How is that not addressed again? I think that’s a huge breach of trust and I would have trouble believing that he has a real plan to pay down his debt and that he’s doing the income-based payment plan correctly.
The latest episode (26) was really odd. I don’t understand why Ramit thinks it went super well? I actually looked up whether he was married or not because I was like…this guy does not understand anything. LOL. FWIW he is married but only since 2018, so maybe that’s part of it. I also get the sense that the only type of vulnerability Ramit is familiar with is emotional vulnerability (so to him that’s probably the worst feeling of vulnerability that exists), and I think that leads him to miss a lot of the deeper concerns that pop up more frequently with women on the podcast.
I thought the woman seemed pretty unkind and I still feel that way a bit, but once I heard her boyfriend talking about his “future plans” I was like OH, well no freaking wonder, lol. He sounds about as enthusiastic about their future as a kid about to go to a dentist and clearly has no actual plan, that would also terrify me! And I think Ramit just made it seem like, “hey bro, give more details so you can have fun traveling together!” which…I do not think is the real issue.
I mean, a 46 year old guy who has no timeline plan for anything at all? Says he wants kids but doesn’t mention when, how many, whether he would keep working nights, etc. That screams in my face RUN THIS MAN WILL RUIN YOU!!! And she’s 36, like…her timeline is narrowing down fast and he gets upset about her wanting a plan. Maybe the real question is if she should be with someone who she has so little respect for? IDK. But I think Ramit so much wants people to talk about spending money in a fun way that he glosses over a lot of major stuff to get to that point in the show.
It was interesting how Ramit mentioned that culture and family background was fine as an explanation for views but not as an excuse for continued behavior though! That’s been missing a bit from previous episodes IMO. I think overall his show would be more successful if he had a co-host who was a qualified marriage counselor and like, maybe female? Just my thoughts!
go you! I’m going to get us some nice pre-made salads and other food this week.
because I was like…this guy does not understand anything. LOL. FWIW he is married but only since 2018, so maybe that’s part of it. I also get the sense that the only type of vulnerability Ramit is familiar with is emotional vulnerability (so to him that’s probably the worst feeling of vulnerability that exists), and I think that leads him to miss a lot of the deeper concerns that pop up more frequently with women on the podcast.