I’m not sure the flu vaccine is an ‘average’ vaccine. It’s actually probably one of the lowest lowest efficacies, mostly because so many strains circulate and we have to guess which ones will.
The CDC says that “one dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles , 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella”. It’s a two dose vaccine, and the 2nd dose increases this. And for DTaP, “a complete vaccine series has a clinical efficacy of virtually 100% for tetanus and 97% for diphtheria.” Varicella “Two doses of the vaccine are about 90% effective at preventing chickenpox.”
All the covid vaccines are highly effective, but most vaccines out there are.
Might just be my feed, but lots of anti-vax people on Facebook seem to be even more aggressively posting misinformation and inflammatory things.
Other than it being annoying and unfollowing, it really scares me that people are getting such wildly different information. Because I see a post or meme and am like, where the f are you reading this crap? I don’t see any of this when I am looking at the paper or the news I read? But obviously they are reading it constantly and it is real to them just like my news is real to me?
Scary polarization things make me sad I know it’s already been discussed a bit earlier in this thread but ughhhhh
A lot of these folks truly don’t believe mainstream media*. IF they’re consuming news in a more typical fashion, it’s alternate networks like OAN, or they mistakenly only consume “entertainment” people like Tucker Carlson. (If you haven’t seen the breakdown on news vs entertainers on news networks, it’s frankly scary- there’s virtually no standard you’re held to if it’s opinion/entertainment and not actual news). And then of course there’s people who only consume “news” via podcast hosts and youtubers and so on that are properly fringe echo chambers.
*I focused just on the right/as it pertains to vaccine hesitancy, but there’s also a similar space of self biasing intentional consumption on the left and distrust of media sources, which is worth mentioning as this is a full on cultural trend and not JUST within one political or religious group.
This is so true. The college I went to is the biggest direct feeder into the entertainment industry and it was pretty common for people in acting majors to stop and reapply for broadcast journalism. I think I only knew one broadcast person who was really into journalism, most were actors who had something stopping them from success in that arena (height, not good enough at acting, etc.).
@hipsail The other thing is the echo chamber effect which has really only been in effect recently to the degree that we’re seeing it now. Whatever you consume is what you get more of, so extremism is much easier to get eased into. Tech companies are completely to blame for this. I’d say on the far right it’s a boatload of conspiracy theory/junk science/blind patriotism stuff and on the far left it’s a ton of doomsday/fear stoking/junk science stuff. The themes of the junk science on each side are different but they’re presented very similarly and produce the same thing IMO.
Very true- and adding to the echo chamber it is impossible to have discussions- if you did genuinely try to engage or ask questions, you will be unfriended or your comments will be deleted. And I would probably do the same, if someone was flooding a post I made with anti-vax stuff or misinformation. I just don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel or anything super promising coming from tech companies. I definitely see more posts removed for fake news but that’s about it right now. Still trying to remain hopeful but we are really in the trenches right now.
That is really interesting about the broadcast journalism!
The light at the end of the tunnel question is an interesting one and I’m not sure we’ll live to see it but I believe it will come. My instinct is always to look to history for analogous scenarios and how they played out and there is a precedent for humans creating a technology that we were not prepared to handle. The biggest/most recent examples I can think of are automobiles and cigarettes.
When cars first came on the market there were not only no safety standards, there were almost no traffic laws, licenses, age limits, or things we’d consider common sense. Drinking all night at a party and hopping in the car to drive home was not even something people would hide, because it was completely socially acceptable and it wasn’t even illegal. Many cars had a problem where, during minor fender benders, the steering wheel column would jut through the person in the driver’s seat, essentially impaling them. A lot of people died. And we all know how cigarettes went, people smoked on trains and near babies and it was all good! Until it wasn’t.
I think there will be a massive backlash to social media and possibly other technology as well, but it will take the wisdom of retrospect to make it happen and we’re still in the beginning stages. I think 100 years from now people will be having this conversation:
A: I was reading a book about how in the past people used to post all the intimate details of their life online, can you believe that? Why would anyone do something so dangerous?
B: Oh that’s not even the worst of it! They gave technology and social media access to children.
A: Come on! No way. Who would ever allow a child unfettered access to something so damaging? That’s like letting a child fly a space ship!
Anyway that’s my prediction. Hopefully this post will become a footnote in some boring essay if I’m right, hahaha.
ETA: And part of why I think ^ will happen is because when we look to the ultra elite it’s already happening. CEOs of tech companies overwhelmingly do not allow their children access to technology, some don’t even allow them internet because they believe it can damage their development. The elite are also increasingly getting offline and shutting down their social media accounts. That says a lot.
“The new version of the rule states parents have sole discretion over mask wearing. The rule also says students do not have to quarantine if they’ve tested positive for the coronavirus and have no symptoms.”
We’re so fucking close to a vaccine for kids, SO CLOSE. Now please excuse me while I go have a meltdown in the corner.
My county has (had?) a ten week mask requirement but I don’t know if that applies any more? Probably no one else does either? That would have almost gotten us to the end of October I think, I don’t remember if it was effective the first week of school or the third week.
Today I found out that at least some of the libraries have resumed after-school programming for ages 8 to 12… masks and social distancing NOT required as the library doesn’t require it for anyone. And they are given a snack, so even the ones who are masking take them off. I’m beyond appalled. Who thought this was a good idea?
Oh, this was good information to have. Thank you! I guess that’s the situation we’re in right now with covid.
Question a smart person might be able to answer: why are we getting so many mutations with Covid? Presumably because they’re mutating in less healthy/less immune-y people who have the virus for longer. Why do we not see these with TB or Polio (or other infectious diseases that we’ve mostly eliminated in the rich world using vaccines and other protocols?)
However, if you can keep a virus from spreading, that reduces the chance of mutation. And many times mutations just don’t matter, because it mutates in a way that doesn’t change whether or not the vaccine is effective.
Mutation isn’t something that will ever end. It’s how evolution works. Everything on the earth is mutating to survive.
(Note: TB is a bacteria, not a virus; but same idea. Every time a cell splits, it has the chance to mutate.)
But why were we able to effectively wipe out Polio and TB in rich countries and Smallpox worldwide if mutations are happening? Aren’t both actually more highly contagious than covid? Esp given that countries that still have TB and polio have a great deal of trade with rich countries?
We wiped out polio because of widespread vaccination campaigns. By having such a high vaccination rate, it stops the spread, mutations stop, when the spread rate is low, breakthrough cases become rare, and the virus spreading becomes even more rare. Beating polio was hard fought.
Same with TB- effective antibiotic treatment. And widespread testing to prevent spread. I’ve had to get a TB test before every childcare/education job I’ve had, despite having known no one in my life with TB. We make sure we don’t let TB into populations it will run rampant, and when it does, we get it treated and the spread stopped quickly.
It’s why antibiotic resistance is so scary.
Shockingly, my work has mandated full vaccine status for any employee going to one of our “campuses” (I hate that term, we are not in school). Anyways, quite interesting since rumour has it that our CEO met with similar business counterparts and they were not willing to do so. Therefore, maybe we are being trailblazers. Who knows. But I’m happy that they have done this.
And work friend yesterday who is a manger advised that HR has spoken to the management teams and they are not allowed to ask or talk about vaccine status with employees due to privacy.
Yea, I knew testing was part of the strategy - I have to get a TB test every 6 months and I had to get a lung XRAY and test for TB before I went on an immunosuppressant - you also have to have a negative test to enter some countries if you come from a country with high TB > low TB rate.
That’s kinda what I’m confused about - It seems harder for me to wrap my head around it being easier to get polio vaccines around the world and into so many arms in the 1950s and 1960s before mutations spread, than it is now. Like we have a much more robust global communication and supply delivery network, the biggest populations in the world are no longer the poorest countries, and both China + India now have the ability to manufacture vaccines when neither had that industry in the 1960s. So how did mutation not stop progress before as it feels it is now?
I do know they managed to get rid of “wild” polio in all of Africa in 2019, but there’s still versions that come from the vaccine and then spread amongst unvaccinated groups (mostly nomadic tribes). IIRC correctly, there’s only two countries with wild polio left, Pakistan and Afghanistan? But like…how are we not seeing a spread of polio between countries and then new mutations persist given how infectious it is? Vaccine requirements to enter countries?
Is it going to be 50 years down the line that poor countries are still dealing with Covid and rich countries have eliminated it like polio? Is part of the difference that polio vaccines are lifelong immunity and we don’t yet see that with covid?
I think the covid mutation issue feels really impactful because we’re living through it in real time. It’s affecting each of our risk calculations and our overall public health measures. But in the bigger scheme of things, the vaccines we have are still incredibly effective against the mutations. NY just released a portal with breakthrough data, and only 0.7% of vaccinated people here have had breakthrough infections even with delta running rampant. Our cases are trending down again after a very small third wave because our vaccination rate is continuing to creep up.
Polio is still mutating. But like other living organisms, it only mutates in ways that is beneficial to its survival. (Edit: I said this wrong; it mutates in tons of ways, but only the ones that are beneficial ultimately survive.)
The virus that causes covid-19 is ‘novel’ (remember all the “novel coronavirus”)- it has to mutate to find the way it is most advantageous to survive. Once it does, the mutations kind of ‘settle down’ (Edit: in that the “original” strain stays the main one), because mutations don’t increase the viruses risk of survival (as a species).
For instance, we don’t hear about the millions of mutations that don’t cause the virus to spread. Because those viruses die.
So for endemic viruses, mutations are less likely to 'take hold" because there is no evolutionary advantage to them.
Or sometimes a mutation can be super deadily; but then it kills off people so quickly, it doesn’t have a chance to spread. That mutation won’t survive.
Edit: Think about how many mutations of covid we’ve heard of. We heard about alpha, we heard about delta, I’ve heard about mu. What about all the other ones? They existed, but were no big deal and didn’t become dominate. And then there were plenty that were too small of a change to get their own name.
I know it’s already been discussed a bit earlier in this thread but ughhhhh