When you are buying a house, what is the acceptable level of…dishonesty…from a seller? Like, I don’t expect people to be 100% perfectly transparent in this type of market where they don’t really have to be. But like, say they said “this water heater was installed in 2015” and then you find out it is actually from 2010…and the HVAC is “newer, 14 years old” and actually is 20 years old. I’m having separate inspections done on these items, and will submit for repairs/replacements if need be. But beyond that, the part of me that is like “it is morally wrong to lie and hide information” is like…I don’t want to buy this house on principle even if they fix the things, because what else are they hiding?
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I would probably ask for proof of purchase on big items like that. Personally, I would probably be guessing (and be wrong) if you asked me those dates, not outright lying. But if it is many items, then yes, I would start to get concerned.
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There may be local or state laws that cover this (there are in our state). Dates of replacement could be honest mistakes (unless they kept good records).
Is a 14 yr HVAC considered new? I would look online for the average lifespan of the equipment.
Is the HVAC heating and cooling? I assume cooling is a swamp cooler, rather than A/C.
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If you’re at all interested in buying that house it would be worth finding a local real estate lawyer. Consider the cost of a couple hours of lawyer time compared to the overall cost of the house. Maybe they’d be able to give you an answer with just a phone call - either yes it sounds weird or no being off by a few years is normal - but it’s worth the peace of mind.
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I guess I feel like…if you are filling out a disclosure for someone who is going under contract for your house, it’s easy enough to walk up to the water heater and look at the sticker with the date on it? We saw it right away during the inspection…the HVAC I understand because it’s on the roof…
@Gdogg I don’t consider 14 year old HVAC to be new, but that’s what the seller told me the first time I viewed the house, he said “oh don’t worry it’s newer!!”. He put no info about it in the disclosure. It is heating and cooling, not evaporative but heat pump
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If they’re lying about that stuff, what else is being misrepresented?
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This is how I am feeling. The inspector said overall there are very few concerning things, he said it was one of the better inspections he’s done. But I’m worried just based on these misrepresentations. Also really sad because this house has the most perfect patio, which is dumb, but I get fixated on specific little things that I love about a house, and it’s hard to move on.
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Are the sellers going through a real estate agent? Are you?
A lot of whole house inspections (inspectors) are nearly completely useless. It’s a pretty cursory check, and if they miss something big and expensive, they are only liable for the cost of the inspection (gee, thanks asshole).
Check on the cost of failure for these items, though HVAC might be able to be repaired. Maybe insist on the HVAC being serviced before you close at seller’s cost - or ask for service records / company servicing the equipment.
I feel you on get attached to one feature vs. the whole value of something.
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Slightly different scenario because the sellers didn’t say anything about the age of appliances is in the disclosures, but when we went through the inspection we found that AC/furnace, water heater, oven, range fan, etc. were ALL at or past the end of their “expected useful life”. We used that to negotiate on price and while we didn’t get as much credit as we wanted, they did credit us back $5000. You might try the same, especially because they were disclosed no incorrectly.
Another option would be to say that since they put incorrect information on a legally binding disclosure, you don’t trust them and want to push closing by a few weeks and have them pay for additional inspections (mold? termite? Structural?) to address your concerns. Your realtor should be able to provide some guidance on what’s reasonable.
The other thing is that in California at least, the sellers pay for a year warranty on all appliances which made us feel better that is everything died within 12 months we wouldn’t be paying for the repairs and if things didn’t start having issues for 2-3 years then we’d have the chance to start saving now.
I totally understand getting unreasonably attached to a patio though! I did the same after going to an open house about five years ago and kept comparing every property we saw to it until finally my spouse gave up and we bought a different unit in the same condo complex a few months ago 
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I have an agent and they do as well. I am getting additional inspections outside of the standard. I have an HVAC specialist and a plumber coming specifically to do more thorough inspections. I keep hearing a lot of “but it could last for years, and a new HVAC could fail quickly too!”…and my realtor loves to make excuses about it being the market because it’s a sellers market as if I’m supposed to care less about these things simply because it’s more competitive. My answer is, then I just won’t buy it 
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Don’t buy. And I’d also be looking into getting a different realtor, they don’t need to make the seller’s job even easier.
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They actually didn’t disclose anything…literally anything, on the disclosure. So I originally made an offer for $18K under list, which was based on comps in the area, and not having any information regarding the AC/water heater, appliances, etc. They countered $7k higher, and I had my agent reach out to theirs to get specific dates regarding the HVAC/water heater because that would affect my decision to accept the counter. So she got this info from the seller, or so they say, and now I know it’s all false. So I’m annoyed because I based accepting the counter offer on that info, and they knew it was important to me.
According to my realtor (who knows if this is true) in this market it is almost impossible to get people to credit you back for things. It’s easier to just have them repair/replace things. I don’t know how much I believe that is true, but this is also my first home purchase. I’m wary of someone with no interest in the home paying for these repairs, and the quality they will be, etc. I do know the seller has already purchased a home out of state, and needs to move for a new job, so maybe they will be more willing to work with me?
What’s hilarious about this damn patio is, there is another unit for sale in the same complex, it’s cheaper (also smaller), everything inside is BRAND new (but it was a flip so I’m cautious) but the patio is awful. It backs up to another building, so there is no actual sky visible, and it’s so ugly haha. The patio on the other house backs up to a wash, with trees and cactus, and it has a pergola and built in outdoor kitchen, etc…just night and day. In AZ outdoor living spaces are really important (at least to me) because we have so much good weather…so it’s one of my number one asks in a house.
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You kinda have to decide how much bullshit to put up with at a point. I wouldn’t worry about motivation as much as- does the house meet your needs? Are you willing to pay short and long term for it? Is it worth it to YOU? Ignoring the market for a second, is the dollar expected amount going to it monthly worth it, to you, for this thing?
This last home purchase the sellers were yoohoos, just a mess. We literally dropped contract over negotiations at one point over the roof then went into contract again. At a certain point, I just decided to let them “win”. Because frankly? It doesn’t matter. We needed a house (pandemic, apartment, increasingly mobile child at the time). We liked some hard to replace aspects of this house (natural space around it, distance to airport). So even if we ended up paying a little more than ideal, it was worth it to us because of a bunch of personal factors that would make a comparable option way harder to find again.
So yeah. Wall of text to say- don’t forget to take moments to ignore the game, ignore the market, etc, and say- is this worth it to ME, and how hard will it be to find something else that checks my boxes.
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Thank you for this. This was my original intent when trying to buy a house…I want a place that is quiet, my place, a nice outdoor space, somewhere where there isn’t a human slamming doors at 3am next to my bedroom, etc. I am willing to spend money for this, and I also acknowledge to myself that it is expensive to get these things. If I had a lot more money, I think little things like HVAC and water heater wouldn’t bother me so much. I don’t really care about “winning” so much as, not having to replace both of these things in 1-2 years when I’m still building up my savings higher after the purchase. Unfortunately because of how high the market is, especially in AZ right now, getting the bare minimum of what I want in a house is costing so much more than I had ever wanted to spend on a first house. I never thought I would buy a townhome, and I have landed on that simply because the price of a single family home is…completely out of reach now. So I’m stuck in this place of buy now, because my living situation is just not sustainable, or wait years more to save up while living in this house with someone I have a really hard time living with
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There may be various ethical / legal obligations on each of your realtors. Your realtor should be looking out for your interests - not just their commission. So they can stuff their platitudes right up their special hidey hole IMO.
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It’s interesting that a similar unit in the same complex is priced a lot cheaper. How do the prices compare on a $/sq ft basis?
Were both units built by the same builder? I’d expect the same sort of structural issues. The differences between units would come down to things like appliances, which you are noting.
Water heaters have a max life of 12 years. The HVAC units I’m familiar with have a life of 20 years, I replaced mine before it was a below zero, no heat, panic situation. I spent $1K for a water heater a decade ago (new code requirements) and about $7K to upgrade my HVAC the last few years. Could you handle that order of magnitude of expenses (or higher, because of our current economy) in the next few years? Would you regret buying if you had to?
If the HVAC is older, it probably has the older refrigerant that was phased out in 2020. That means there are a number of problems that can’t be serviced and would require replacement (I don’t know how practical it would be not to have AC in Tucson). I’d estimate minimum $5K based on my experience.
At the end of the day I think it comes down to how your gut feels about it. Houses just have problems and take money. If you stay any length of time, you’re going to experience some big expenses. Will you regret not buying this one if you walk away? Will you regret buying it if it turns out to be a big money pit in the next couple of years? Any chance you can talk to the neighbors about their experience with things like builder quality, etc?
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Yep. This is a fundamental truth. Things will come up, certainly, eventually. Ahh, home ownership. Yet, so many of us do it if we can. Because there are a lot of benefits, and that can often include financial ones.
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We replaced our water heater (gas, $600) a few years ago - it had been installed in 1986 - so clearly lasted far more than 12 years. Replacement timeline for water heaters is highly dependent on water quality. Water heaters in an adjacent suburb last 6-8 years.
HVAC lifetime probably depend on how good the owners are at cleaning / replacing filters, etc. We still have the one that was in the house when we bought it, I think it was installed in the 1990s. We have done a couple repairs for cooling, and for heating, rather than replace (yet). Not sure how long our luck will hold out.
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The other unit is 2 bed/1.5bath and this one is 3 bed/2.5 bath. I originally liked the other one because it was only 1k sq ft, BUT the location in the complex is just…terrible. It’s right in the middle of two buildings, closer to the street, etc. The one I’m under contract for is at the very back of the complex, backed up to open space and furthest from the street. That matters to me because noise is a huge factor in whether or not I’ll be able to sleep at night.
I think I could handle the replacement expenses in the new few years. But in the next year? That would be really really rough. I was just hoping to buy something with nothing major wrong with it that I had to address right away. Obviously things can happen in any house, at any time, but walking into a house purchase with 19 years on the HVAC and 11 years on the water heater worries me.
My gut still really really likes this house for all of the unquantifiable reasons like, I like how it feels, I can picture myself living there, I love the patio, etc etc…but actual rational facts are telling me to pause
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The fact that this is how it went down seems a little shadier to me. It would be one thing if someone was filling out paperwork, and for whatever reason didn’t think to check that their memory was accurate about the years of buying things, etc. The fact that they submitted the wrong years during a contract negotiation would make me worried too.
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