I read MP’s books way back when they were released without doing much critique (I was young!). Over time as I learned more, I became quite surprised by how many very left leaning people I knew had been such vocal supporters of the book given the politics behind Joel.
I also buy into the regenerative, organic, food miles, crunchy food stuff a bit and am always fascinated by the politics of the people involved. Particularly at how they need to bend and weave and find common ground to work with people who they polar opposite to. E.g the founders of the local food network where I live who are heavily involved in the Greens (left wing environmental political party) and champions of social justice causes, but are -also working closely with farmers in Queensland who tend to have very different values. They also quote Joel Salatin’s “beyond organic” in their about us page
I actually wasn’t aware of Salatin’s (non food-related) politics until listening to MP either, so it’s totally possible they didn’t know and assumed his politics were similar to theirs based on his perspective on food/agriculture.
Thinking about it now…I’m curious what the breakdown is on agriculture workers and farm owners, politically. It wouldn’t totally surprise me to see a healthy mix, but a lot of things are “coded” conservative or liberal and assumptions are made on that basis – I’m betting that’s what happened with him. (I.E. if you hunt you’re conservative, if you care about sustainable farming you’re liberal, if you like business you’re conservative, if you care about schools you’re liberal, etc.). I imagine a lot of people read his writing on farming/agriculture, and nothing else and just assumed. I also wasn’t aware about his use of unpaid labor (interns) on his farm or that there had been complaints about the work conditions!
ETA: Also unrelated but if anyone hasn’t listened to the Olestra episode…uh, you should. It’s so good.
Listening now. My newest/most boring/most conservative coworker just walked in during an in-depth discussion about poops haha I knew the risk I was taking when I turned it on.
I am so heavy into the Rachel/Dave Hollis drama so I listened to that double episode too. It is a train wreck that connects to all my worst instincts, but I just want to talk about it and hear other people talk about it. I need to stop.
Wwoofing in the permaculture world seem very acceptable, even by those with strong social justice values.
The farm near us does this and it is one practice that makes me very uncomfortable. I kind of think “ok fine” if it’s a rich kid who has inherited some land and wants to start their own farm and learn first, but I’ve also read about families doing it and getting their kids involved in the work… “it’s a great experience” “an inexpensive way to travel” “learning skills”
I listened to three this morning- Michael pollan and supersize me for the discussion and belle gibson to see if they said anything fresh about her. They didn’t
So one thing I often disagree with them about on maintenance phase is, as I think allhat mentions above, the entire existence of science labs making hyper palatable food! It’s also what gets me about a lot of intuitive eating people. You can’t eat intuitively in an environment where hyper palatable food exists! We manipulate it to trick you! I actually think it’s safer eating plain potato chips and Some older fashioned candy because you aren’t being tricked
And they could have gone there with the hamburger bun in the Michael pollan episode because Michael pollan missed the opportunity to go there - as of his book writing of the cheeseburger itself only had 6 ingredients there is a good chance that they’d haven’t manipulated it AS MUCH as the other items on the menu, but that bun is pure science fiction and if I shook off this gluten issue I’d be mowing through it like Om nom nom.
I doubt he knew Joel Salatin was crazy but it’s also this thing we discovered during Covid about far lefts and far rights getting together on wellness conspiracies so I do now assume half my veggies and my foods with stories and potential healthcare practitioners and friends are sitting at 5050 odds either way. Actually I knew that a bit before - like how the fertility wellness people turn out to be fundies
In one of the episodes, maybe it was the supersize me one, a host made a comment about being really into it in their youth because “I hate the system and this thing and everything hate hate hate stomp” yes baby activist me too. I think a lot of fun documentaries and stuff get spread that way
I felt very called out about forming a separate food economy at times, but then validated when they mentioned something that is essentially my produce box company as a valid alternative to farmer’s markets. I was also shocked at their description of and pricing of farmers markets. I hate those boring urban ones! It’s why I don’t go as much, although new city probably has better ones. I think farmer’s markets make sense if you live near farms and those are the people bringing in produce! In urban markets the best alternatives I’ve seen for connecting with farms is having a few once or twice a year markets (like the vegetarian food fair) where you can set up your CSA or otherwise learn about the farm and people with small businesses set up relationships with the farmers. I know a woman with a floral CSA system - most of her clients are small businesses and a few very rich people. She also does workshops when she wants to and a few markets a year at her property.
But yes, Michael pollan failed to note that the whole food system is broken and only gave individual solutions
Same with supersize me! All about individual solutions
The alcoholism in supersize me! The number of lies in the data! The remark wrong of king size bars as sharing
I’ve lived on farms that accept WWOOFs and I worked as a WWOOF abroad. Often it’s used as a way to travel abroad when you don’t have working permissions.
Also signed a contract (AmeriCorps) with the federal government to work for $0 of real money and $3/hr of (taxable) scholarship money to work on a nonprofit organic food bank farm. Halfway through my Americorps term, I realized I could’ve made more money working at the biodynamic farm as a seasonal farm work for piece rate amounts.
Oh! That’s actually what my husband did! It was before we met and I honestly just assumed there was pay involved, lol. He had a great time but yeah, still, like…at least pay minimum wage. He said he got a place to stay and food but I think that’s it.
and the quiet implication that if you enjoy fast food, there must be something wrong with you, because “real” food tastes good. If that food is bad and is supposed to taste inferior, what does that say about me if I like it, even if I don’t eat it?
I spent a lot of time in my early 20’s agonizing about food. Not about health, or body image, but about what the act of eating or enjoying something said about who I was.
I’m going to have to listen to this podcast. I’ve liked Pollan for a long time (even if I haven’t read any in ages). Probably peak annoying hipster wanker in 2006 reading the Omnivores dilemma and then being really attracted to the simplicity of the manifesto book with simple rules. I loves me a manifesto.
Totally! I believe even the exact water concentration in the pickles is modified to be perfectly palatable, as well as the exact texture of the onions, etc. And no one eats a burger without fries, dipping sauces, etc.
Quick aside- Doesn’t Pollan credit Marion Nestel directly a few times in Omnivores Dillema? I thought that’s where I found out about her and ended up reading one of her books in college.
I can’t remember if he credits her or not! If he does I should be a little less mad at him, lol. I feel like Alice Waters also said essentially the same things he says, but in the 1970s. I kind of wondered if that explained some of the book’s appeal, because I feel like it was really popular with boomers and people who don’t typically read food books…maybe there was a kind of, back to the land (but in a cute way) throwback vibe for people who remember that? Although I guess our generation also has a lot of hipster homesteader types too, which is probably our generation’s version of hippies.
ETA: Also I met Marion Nestle at an event once (she wasn’t the speaker) and I totally fangirled and was like, “OMG ARE YOU MARION NESTLE” and that’s how I found out you do not pronounce her name like the candy company. So…hahah, she was nice about it but I was like WHY DID NO ONE ELSE CORRECT ME BEFORE THIS SECOND.
I literally laughed at this. It’s so weird. You’re totally right though, it’s like if you go too far into certain topics you’re going to find some…extreme views, lol.
I shouldn’t feel certain because it has been so long since I have read Michael Pollan, but I am convinced that he gave Marian Nestle a ton of credit in his books. I believe that Michael Pollan’s books were how I first learned about Marion Nestle…
That’s honestly a relief! I hope more people know about her. I don’t know why I remembered him not mentioning her…I mostly just remember feeling like he’d ripped her work off? Maybe I was annoyed that he was so much more widely read than she was even though she did the difficult legwork, and maybe then in my mind I turned it into him also not acknowledging her? That seems totally possible.
This is where I’m at as well. It’s been what like… 15+ years since I read those books. But I swear I came away with a strong enough, positive enough impression that that’s what led me to seek out her book and read it.
haha I knew the risk I was taking when I turned it on.
but I think that’s it.