Would the appliance person be arguing with you? As the client this should be the Shadowy One & your choice, not an argument, I would think?
I did look up the prices for F&P vs. Samsung, and at least in the US the standard (not built-in) fridge is less than $1,000 more than some Samsungs. So that could be a reasonable quality upgrade, vs. a $2-3k difference for built-in. I haven’t checked stove prices yet.
Oh, FYI the oven fan always runs for about 20 minutes after you turn the oven off, ostensibly to cool the unit. It’s not super loud but is definitely audible, and there is no way to turn it off. I’m not sure if that’s true of all induction/electric stoves.
2 Likes
Phew! I’m finally reporting in from the tail end of a long renovation. I’d call it a gut reno except I think we went even further with lots of structural repairs (bones reno?) and a small addition.
- We started with a century old house, decent shell but bad renovations (including structural problems that we uncovered during demo). Kitchen had no foundation and no insulation in the walls.
- We’d bought it in 2012 for $249k and a 15-year, 2.9% mortgage (RIP).
- We removed the entire kitchen structure, rebuilt it with a foundation and proper exterior walls, and added 10x10 bedroom on top. Plus gutted the rest of the interior.
- We moved out to a rental apartment for 1.5 years.
- Small square footage meant choosing fancier materials wasn’t too painful.
- I am so glad we did this, and I love our house now, but I cannot in good conscience recommend this unless you are very stubborn with lots of spare time.
Scope
Our starting point was a century-old house, 2 stories + finished attic with a decent shell but a series of bad renovations. The kitchen was a cinder block extension added in the 1960s, no insulation and no foundation. Demo revealed that the floor joists had been cut to install a bathtub and never repaired. That kind of thing. There was also general aging: each step on the staircase was 1" higher at the back than the front, large holes in the pine floors, various soft spots in the due to roof leaks. Functionally, we first wanted to add a half bath on the first floor for incoming kid and visiting relatives who can’t climb stairs. But the other big want was a kitchen with proper insulation, and it became a whole house reno.
The footprint of the house stayed the same, to preserve the outdoor space. We stacked more space
We also reclaimed at least 40 sq ft by opening up dead space that has been hidden in walls and removing two decaying chimney stacks. Doesn’t sound like much but it allowed a wall of built-in IKEA wardrobes, a half-bath, and big storage closet. Raising half of the ceiling in attic from pitched to flat also gave us a lot more usable space.
Money
The original purchase price in 2012 was $249k (Zillow says $381k now) for 1,368 sq ft. MCOL city, moderately desirable neighborhood. (We are 0.75 miles and 1 elementary catchment away from the super desirable school, and our house + yard there would be close to $1M I think.) At the time we were looking up to $400k but really wanted to be able to one-income it if necessary and this one has a magical backyard. We paid a little bit ahead whenever we had extra cash, and mortgage ended up fully paid the month we moved out.
Initial estimate for the project was $150k so we mentally budgeted $250k.
Will add more money details back when I’m off this plane!
Project team
-
Our architect was relatively young, late 30s I think. He was great and owned a similar shaped house, so he was really on board with all the space optimization. My only complaint is that I wish he talked budget upfront when giving us design choices. For example, board and batten siding was going to be an additional $10k in extra material and that wasn’t worth it to me. If we ever do this again, I know to ask about costs always, often, early.
-
GC was also mostly great. Really good communicator (texted back within minutes, emails back same day) and always down to problem solve together. It wasn’t a huge company, just one guy with a crew of 4 or so dudes and a pretty good book of subs. We found him through a landscape architect friend of my spouse’s and the things that struck me during our interview were (1) he shook my hand every time, not just my husband’s and (2) he got a call halfway through, politely excused himself, talked his crew through in a really calm voice, and got back to our conversation.
-
We also talked to a design-build firm that said “you could make this super nice, people the next neighborhood over are putting $1M into their renovations”. While their work is beautiful it’s just not what we wanted to spend, nope, sorry!
-
We also worked with a separate interior designer. I thought it was green for space planning, less for picking fabrics and tiles etc. She had a lot of ideas for cramming storage everywhere, she redesigned the stair shape to make the whole first floor flow better, and literally drew and calculated the layout for every single tile in the tub/shower nook and the dimensions for the drawers, stairs, etc.
-
I got a subscription to Planner 5D ($36/yr) and made a 3D model. It’s more basic than SketchUp but let me play around a lot with furniture layouts to feel more confident about space planning decisions.
-
I ended up choosing almost all the finishes and fixtures. I made a Pinterest board for each room, then switched to a Google Slides to put final choices next to each other, and then poured over specs.
-
A forum member (who can reveal themselves if they wish!) made a great suggestion to further tighten up the 1st floor built ins. I also booked 2 calls with the couple from Yellow Brick Home to help narrow down some decisions & sizes for fixtures.
-
As clients, spouse is a landscape architect but says “interior finishes scare me”. So he was point person reviewing plans, etc. until drywall went up and then it switched to me.
Choices
Most worthwhile splurges:
- All the space and framing changes. Changing the stairs so you don’t bump your head, opening the wall between kitchen and living room, adding the small bedroom on top of the kitchen, changing the rear half of the attic roof to be flat instead of pitched, adding a small balcony on the attic floor. Demo of two decaying chimney stacks and uncovering lots of hidden wall space. It was a lot of changes for maybe 150 sq ft more, but the size and shape are really working for us. We fixed everything that felt janky and it feels great! Even while we’re still unpacking my 4yo is more willing to play on his own, because the layout is better connected than our rental apartment.
- Flooring - We chose the same Mirage prefinished hardwood flooring that a friend had installed in his house. He’s a carpenter with a baby and dog, and said it still looks pristine 2 years later. I thought I wanted finish-in-place but this stuff has almost invisible seams.
- Windowsills - We used Richlite, a waterproof paper composite. The material wasn’t too expensive but freight shipping doubled the cost. But the result looks nice and is waterproof so I have no qualms about plants or drinks on the windowsills!
- Attic kitchenette - We added a sink, beverage fridge, and small counter in the attic. It was probably $6k in materials and labor. Ikea cabinets & fronts were perfect.
- Built-ins - Between the Pax built-ins and 3 downstairs built-ins, we have almost no furniture to buy and sold 8 things.
Budget wins:
- LED strip lights under balcony wall. It looks like million bucks but was $100.
- Keeping our mismatched washing machine
- Keeping the footprint small, which will continue to pay off in low property tax bill.
- Keeping to 1.5 bathrooms.
Best bangs for buck:
- Ikea Pax wardrobe built-ins
- Marble countertops and backsplash (this was a surprise, but marble is everywhere in my area, there are 5 fabricators within 2 miles of my house, plus we chose 1/2" instead of the more common 3/4")
- Dimmers everywhere
- Extra insulation between floors
- Custom concrete sink for the powder room. We saved on buying a vanity and the labor of installing a separate sink.
- Insulation and ceiling fans. Modern insulation combined with ceiling fans is a marvel! We had 5 days of 90-degree temps before I had to turn on the AC.
Dubious value:
- Built-in fridge – we are 5 appointments into trying to get this installed safely and it’s been such a headache
- Seltzer maker on tap – we got a Seltzatap which is kind of amazing but I think there’s a cheaper way to set this up like bars do.
- Sliding door upgrade – I preferred a certain style of handle that was only available with the fanciest door. In practice I don’t think we would have noticed.
Lessons learned
Lessons learned:
- Stop after demo and reassess whether your plan still makes sense. We found so much damage the roof framing had to be entirely redone, so we could have made space for the 3rd floor HVAC right then instead of hating the soffit later and paying $10,000 plus two months of delays to fix.
- Specs specs specs for bathroom fixtures. There are so many things you have to commit to and tolerances are tight. Choosing them is pretty time consuming, and often the specs influence where plumbing and electrical rough-ins go, so start early.
- I am really pleased with how kid-friendly the house is. One thing we did on purpose was put all the switches at accessible height. One thing we did by accident was choosing a very shallow (front to back) 12” sink for the powder room. Spore can reach it without a stool and TR can reach with just a simple step stool. Oh, and Summer makes a toilet lid with kid seat built-in. All of that means the kids can do a lot more on their own.
If I could go back in time:
- I would set up a separate checking account and credit card for the project. Just keeps the regular budgeting & accounts less bananas.
- I would have stopped after demo to fully understand what structural repairs would be needed, and I would be less afraid of major structural changes. Just because it feels intimidating to me, doesn’t mean it’s actually harder or more expensive for pros.
- My sister in law who used to manage commercial construction projects told me things felt slow about halfway through the project. We started having construction meetings with the GC, architect, and us every Monday at 8:30am. I would have started these meetings much earlier, maybe every 2 weeks to start and then weekly as construction ramped up.
- West Elm has nice soft furnishings but I wouldn’t recommend their bathroom vanities or medicine cabinets (anything built-in). The vanity drawer glides aren’t the smoothest and medicine cabinet doors only open one direction.
Photos!
13 Likes
I would love to hear more about the built ins.
Are the downstairs ones custom? How did you decide where to go custom and where to do Pax? Did you get Ikea doors or use one of the places that makes different doors for them?
2 Likes
The downstairs project already had to have a custom steel staircase structure. It’s 3 steps up, a landing, 6 straight steps, and then a spiral! Our interior designer pushed for built-ins since it would make a pretty small space feel less cluttered. Our architect recommended a fabricator that did both structural metal + woodworking and their work looked beautiful.
I think because of the structural need and decluttering aspect I was more prepared to go with high quality (and high cost). We had the money set aside and it was 100% a luxury. One thing I learned is dimensions can matter more than finishes. So in another room I bought 3 cheap Amazon cabinets that spanned wall-to-wall and it feels like a built-in. Someone with more time could also do some Ikea hacking and/or coordinate with a carpenter/handyman, but would have required a lot of cutting/filling in to fit our dimensions.
In the bedroom, the transformative part was just having the Paxes at all. I never considered anything else because the flexibility to customize in a few years is so great. We used Reform doors ($600 each) partly because we were ordering for the kitchen already. IKEA doors are $60-$160 each so I think if you like any of them well enough that’s a great place to save. I really like their cheapest finish Forsand, an extremely 2024 gray-beige, and we used it in the kitchenette. Young House Love has a great example on their blog with standard IKEA doors.
@rhubarbsoda I just added photos in the prior post.
6 Likes
Yay!! I’ve been waiting for this post. Your home is so lovely (I’m still bummed it didn’t work out to swing through your city on our Aug trip)
Is that adorable room with the bed and the happy face wallpaper the one you added? It’s so cute!! Also your kitchen looking out into the yard is just perfect. Looks like such a nice place to cook.
Our bathroom/closet remodel is moving very very slowly since we are getting the family and friends discount rate. We’re supposed to meet this weekend to finalize the floor plan details and start looking at materials so your advice on bathroom specs is perfectly timed!
2 Likes
I love the cute bed nook! Everything looks so nice, now I’m just going to sit here and think about how to make my house more friendly for me to live in 
2 Likes
@Sunflower Thank you! Maybe the stars will align to meet up in the future.
No, the smiley face room is part of a former 6x10 bedroom (the rest of it became the bathroom). It’s currently a nursery for TR (actually it can legally only be called a closet, it’s too small). I’m hoping the kids will share a room once he sleeps through the night and it can become a family reading nook/phone booth.
The addition is this 10x10 room. The big honey locust is a free yard tree from a city program funded by passive stormwater management funding. There’s a smaller umbrella magnolia to the left. We planted the honey locust 6 years ago and it makes the room feel like a treehouse.
Good luck with bathroom/closet progress!
5 Likes
I love the idea of home as a friendly friend.
1 Like
