Reviving this thread to say that Elliot Page, formerly Ellen* Page announced yesterday that he is trans. Netflix and Hulu have both updated his cast page with the correct name, and is in the process of correcting end credits. Hulu has also confirmed that Page will continue to play Vanya on Umbrella Academy.
I have complex feelings, but I think the overarching take away is that the kids are alright, and the kids are the point.
*included only so people can track
I watched that unfold yesterday and it pleased me greatly. I’ve always been a fan of theirs. One of our finest exports.
Quick plug for Gaycation on Hulu. I know most folks are acquainted with his fictional work, and this was a really good series.
I saw a really good thread pointing out that the reason that so many older folks feel like this is a “new thing with all these trans people” is because the trans elders that would be in their 50’s and 60’s now - they died. They died in the AIDS crisis.
That is a good but horrible point.
It’s one reason so many of the elders in the GLBTQ+ community are cislesbians. They were the witnesses.
Those are the women that raised me, as a feral early 20something. The trauma and generosity and love in that cohort is breathtaking.
More philosophically, I think there’s a fascinating opportunity to look at names as those things that form our identity, both internally and externally.
I saw Elliot’s original letter as re-tweets from a couple friends. I though “super rad for Elliot!” but I didn’t cotton on to who Elliot was until @dahlia clued me in via horniness &. Even then, it took an article with a picture, and a caption with Elliot Page comes out as transgender. Not a one was using the former name.$
Shying away from any mention of a previous name seems wise, since each individuals relationship to both the name, and the phrase ‘formerly known as’ should be left up to the individual. But it does open philosophical doors about names and identities.
One interpretation is that Elliot has always been Elliot, which indicates that our selfless transcends anything like a name. The contrast against which, is, of course, is that name shouldn’t matter, because selfness transcends names. A bit of a tautology, but not really very troubling.
Another interpretation is that there was once an ‘Ellen,’ who gradually came to a sea-change understanding of themself so fundamental that ‘Elliot’ emerged.
Or, it’s simply that names matter a whole lot, and any reminders of the former/previous/dead name is so painful a polite person doesn’t mention it. But then we’re right back to the question of ‘what is self, how is self labeled inside, ummm, oneself?’
Society is both a gestalt, and defined by the things that happen at the edges of taxonomy and categorization. It’s intersting.
& Second time I’ve used that today. Still satisfying.
$ For a bit, his Wikipedia page still had a “formerly known as,” blurb, but that has since been removed.
For a bit, his Wikipedia page still had a “formerly known as,” blurb, but that has since been removed.
I wonder if it would be appropriate to say “previously credited as”. Although, if all his credits are being updated (amazing, btw), then I suppose that would not be needed.
Has Caitlyn Jenner’s sports record been changed in anyway? How is that dealt with in using the dead name? (Honestly, I see her former name quite a bit.)
My husband is having a hard time figuring out labels. Formerly, Elliot Page identified as a lesbian, and was married to another woman. Is he now a straight man, and his partner bi?
I told him Elliot self identified as queer, and I have no idea what his partner does.
So I’m going to ask you brilliant people are straight/gay labels used in the trans community?
Would it be likely that someone who formerly identified as a lesbian identify as a straight man?
A smart person in The Other Forum suggested “X, known for their role as Y in the film Z (or whatever other thing they are known for)", rather than "X, formerly known as W.”
Seems pretty smart to me.
I have no idea what his roles were. But I do know him as an actor by name.
So I think a lot of people would still not necessarily know who is being talked about.
See two transwomen being lesbians makes sense to me. (My cousin is a trans woman in a relationship with a woman. Her partner identifies as a lesbian. I’ve never heard my cousin say. Another lesbian cousin I have identifies as gay. She doesn’t like the word lesbian. So I suppose it’s all just individual.)
I guess what confuses me is when someone in a relationship transitions. But I suppose what their label is, and how the relationship is affected is their business and not mine.
Regarding names, academic debates aside, the general practice for trans folx is to do what the sites have done: accept their new name, change it, and not refer to them by their deadname anymore. People can figure things out from photos, context clues, and a single, initial use of the deadname (perhaps) used tastefully in a coming out article.
After that, using the deadname is considered not just impolite but actively bad. After all, the person in question changed their name for a reason. Just because your (larger you, not a specific person) relationship to names and your name is benign doesn’t mean others’ is. It is often a very painful misgendering.
Re: labels for people. 
People do this all the time. It’s one of the beautiful things about the label “queer” that’s been reclaimed. It’s a big umbrella. A few people in relationships with cis straight people have difficulties making their partner realize that they aren’t straight because being in a relationship with them is inherently queer.
It’s not a subject I pay much attention to, as labels are a very individualistic thing. Every person picks their own, and there aren’t magic answers. People are constantly redefining themselves.
We shed our skins and that’s okay.
I’m not trans but if people use my birth name, I tense the heck up and don’t answer to it (it’s like…not even relevant to me). I was like that was from 11 onwards when I changed it. I never liked my birth name, and went through a lot of work to change it before I was legally allowed to. vast majority of people don’t know my birth name and never knew me socially as it, but it was on academic records (though I did my best to screw those up as a precocious child who refused to like…write the correct name on the SAT). Social recognition and legal is not the same.
I got all my skating competitive and testing records changed to my new name, luckily most of my competitive life I had already transitioned to using the name socially/anywhere that I could write it, just not legally - so it was always written as Lillian on competition shirts/inside of the USFSA magazine. I’m not sure about Caitlyn Jenner.
I love this part of what you wrote a lot.
There is a trans art exhibit in the Tate Modern and Dr Ronx on Instagram is freaking out over it and posting tons of amazing photos.
Seems timely.
Oh, for sure. Anything else is just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. I do think the philosophy side of it all is very interesting, though.
My parents oddly insist on using my sister’s given name when referring to her as a child, which I find frustrating because it’s not for the sake of clarity; we all know who they are talking about when they refer to her chosen name. There’s an insistence that “well that’s who she was then!” and maybe, maybe not, but so? I used to have a different last name, and unless someone doesn’t know my new name I am not referred to as “Greyweld formerlastname” when talking about me as a child unless it’s for the sake of clarity from someone who only knew me as formerlastname. Clearly not the case within the group of me, my parents + my siblings.
I’m still fuzzy on the line when discussing people’s names given at birth for the sake of clarity. Most of the time it’s somewhat easy to refer to famous people by the things they’ve done in the past, i.e. “Star of Juno, Umbrella Academy, Inception” etc, most people who knew Elliot by another name will know enough of their work to connect the dots.
But on the other hand, take my grandmother who has dementia. If I say, for example, “Jen did this” she has no clue who I’m talking about. If I say “your granddaughter” she thinks I mean me. If I say “my sister” she’s confused and think’s I’m one of my cousins who has a sister, or just has no idea what I’m talking about. But she knows who I’m talking about when I talk about Jon, and then remind her that Jon is now Jen, for about five minutes.
I don’t know where I’m going with this, honestly.
Your point about surname changes is exactly how I feel about any name change. Why is gender the one circumstance people seem to feel needs a qualifier?!
If we’re walking in to a meeting where Elliot will be present and our coworker likely doesn’t know, then sure, “Ellen goes by Elliot and he/they pronouns.” Otherwise it’s just not really even necessary. It makes a moment out of something that should be accepted as easily as your surname changes after marriage.
Your sister never really was Jon so it’s kinda messed up for your parents to split her life into two people now that she’s living as herself. I get that different people have different timelines for figuring this out, but to me if your sister hasn’t explicitly asked for that, it’s not cool.
Alzheimer’s is different - there are many things we have to alter to make someone with dementia feel understood and that’s perfectly ok.
